FISHnLAB
Member
Good information, thank you👍.
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Chihiros WRGB2 Pro has a separate 'white' LED channel but...
- Thread starter adriancarr
- Start date
FISHnLAB
Member
Hey, if you don't mind me asking how high(output) do you run your lights? How high do you think I would have to run a single WRGB 2 Pro 90 on a 90p(basically what I am getting) at most with CO2 jacked and a Dutch style fully carpeted aquascape? Just trying to get an idea how much power is needed. Thanks.
For my 90P tank, I am currently running at:
WRGB2 Pro (front) 84/64/75/72
WRGB2 (rear) 88/68/80
For the WRGB2 Pro I had gone as high as 89/69/80/75 but I have since reduced it, to see if I could reduce the amount of GDA I had to scrape off the tank glass every week.
FISHnLAB
Member
Oh wow, so high power can definitely be put to use considering the WRGB2 Pro 90 alone is almost 10000 lumens😳. I had better get a powerful light then. I was starting to think maybe I could cheap out and just get 2 of the Nicrew RGB-W 24/7s I have on my other tank but, their 90 equivalents are only 1650 Lumens each lol. So even 2 of them would likely limit me in the future on this high tech build. Either way, the Nicrew RGB-W's are still great lights for the money though.
I have contacted every authorized Canadian Chihiros dealer and none have stock on the WRGB2 Pro 90 unfortunately. I have a couple of months max before I am ready to fire it up so hopefully they get one. Otherwise, I may have to order from AliExpress or just get 2 x AI Prime Freshwater(they are much much easier to get as Waterbox sells them).
Thanks for your help👍.
fzaqua.com in the US sells the Pro including the 90 and per their shipping policy it looks like they'll ship to Canada....give AquaRocksColorado a call, too
FISHnLAB
Member
Thanks for the heads up, I'll look into it👍. Hopefully the shipping isn't prohibitively expensive and I also will need to check about warranty as I get 1 year warranty from Chihiros when bought at an Authorized dealer here in Canada.
FISHnLAB
Member
Found another option but, it is in ADA Solar RGB pricing territory. Looks very nice though...
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Might as well add the Mitras 7000 series in here:Found another option but, it is in ADA Solar RGB pricing territory. Looks very nice though...
Advantage to Mitras for including "reg blue" diodes to help fill the "cyan gap" of the Maxpect.
FISHnLAB
Member
Thanks for adding that Oreo👍.Might as well add the Mitras 7000 series in here:
Advantage to Mitras for including "reg blue" diodes to help fill the "cyan gap" of the Maxpect.
FISHnLAB
Member
Hey Oreo or anyone else, what about commercial LED plant grow lights? Why don't more Aquarists use them? They seam to be a much, much better value then aquarium specific ones, have fuller spectrums for the most part, and also generally have better quality and clearly listed components like Meanwell Power Supplies and Samsung Emitters. The only downside seams to be lack of spectral control really as even ramping timers can be a added to them. Am I missing something? Thanks👍.Might as well add the Mitras 7000 series in here:
Advantage to Mitras for including "reg blue" diodes to help fill the "cyan gap" of the Maxpect.
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FISHnLAB
Member
Just as an experiment, I ordered a cheap one to try on some of my propagation tanks, installed it today, and it has me considering going with a quality one instead of an aquarium specific one for my new tank build as well. It is crazy bright with a high emitter count(224 total), has quite good colour rendition with quality Samsung 5000K, 3000K, 660nm Deep Red, & 730nm Infrared emitters, has good tint(just a touch of a yellow hue if I had to describe it which it should have due to the temp of its emitter selection but, no green or magenta), and came with a plethora of accessories including a nice temp/humidity weather station and ratchet pulley with carabiners. All for $50CAD(37EUR). I added an inline dimmer and that is that.
The only cons I can find/think of off hand are fast PWM(I don't think this is an issue on quality commercial lights but, this is bottom of the pile price wise and I used a cheap inline dimmer which could be causing it), lack of spectral control, and lack of a timer and ramping features(both can be achieved with an inexpensive wifi ramping timer however).
So, here I am considering scrapping all of these aquarium specific options we have been tanking about and going with a mid to higher end commercial LED Grow Light instead(not quite as cheap as the one in my experiment).
Hopefully we can get some opinions on this and some suggestions of things I may not of thought of or other cons to this approach. I have no issue buying an Aquarium specific product but, it seams silly not to consider this path due to the above mentioned benefits. What do you guys think?
Here are some pics of my experiment...
Edited for punctuation etc.
The only cons I can find/think of off hand are fast PWM(I don't think this is an issue on quality commercial lights but, this is bottom of the pile price wise and I used a cheap inline dimmer which could be causing it), lack of spectral control, and lack of a timer and ramping features(both can be achieved with an inexpensive wifi ramping timer however).
So, here I am considering scrapping all of these aquarium specific options we have been tanking about and going with a mid to higher end commercial LED Grow Light instead(not quite as cheap as the one in my experiment).
Hopefully we can get some opinions on this and some suggestions of things I may not of thought of or other cons to this approach. I have no issue buying an Aquarium specific product but, it seams silly not to consider this path due to the above mentioned benefits. What do you guys think?
Here are some pics of my experiment...
Edited for punctuation etc.
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It is a sad fact that once you put the word “Aquarium” in front of any device name, it’s suddenly a licence to triple the price, so I’ll be interested to read about any option you come across.
FISHnLAB
Member
Hi Wooki, thanks for the reply👍.
Yes, I have definitely noticed that😔. Hopefully we get some other perspectives and experience with this. Maybe I should have started a new thread on the experiment/topic...
There is nothing inherently wrong with what you said.
Really mostly it comes down to err "aesthetic" and/or personal choices.
There are also plant lights with at least 2 channels.
Though you will see that once you get into channels, high power, quality large power supplies it may be cheaper but not as cheap as the difference in the low end.
I've personally never saw a cheap light with a Meanwell or UL listed power supply .
Amazon product ASIN B0B4HG7SKFI do find some interesting, like the above.
It is "only" 65 watts per unit though.
I got to admit It don't find the tone appealing.
Science has proven the same thing btw.
Why???????
I mean candlelight is accepted but when it comes to daylight color rendition the " feeling" changes to a tone w/ exaggerated reds/ magenta and not yellow.
ADA favors green tints inc extra green metal halides.
I'd love to love them..just can't .
Not for a display tank.
Didn't even go into the " dynamic" aspects.
Point is they each have different target markets.
People complain the Ai primes are " too yellow"
How popular were " growlux" tubes and their rich color cast?
One area of agreement is they could provide more output for the $$$' s in aquarium lights.
Then again most tanks probably couldn't take it.
They are if you run the warm white LED's - switch those off and you get a much better daylight balance, with the individual RGB's to add a little more pop (even more so if you don't need to run the cool whites at 100%).
I really wish AI would do a Prime with the white LED's switched out for some RGB LED's and use additional red, green and blue and amber LED's at different peak frequencies to infill the gaps in the spectrum. It'd be the perfect light!
FISHnLAB
Member
Yes but, there are plant lights with all different types of spectrums and emitters used. If one wants a higher temperature or different aesthetic, they should pick based on the emitter selection used and provided specs(some use 6500K instead of 5000K for the cool emitter for instance).
What do you mean by channels?
I have found many with UL listed and several with Meanwell for as low as 60EUR. I can send you some links if you want. Here is just one example. Samsung and Osram Emitters & a Meanwell PS all for $66EUR...
I've personally never saw a cheap light with a Meanwell or UL listed power supply .
LED Grow Light ,CHVEGLUZ CH1000 Plant Grow Light Full Spectrum with Samsung LM301B and Meanwell Driver for 3x3 ft Coverage High PPFD Grow Lights for Indoor Plants Seedling Veg Flower Growing Lamps https://a.co/d/6Guassm
Ha, that's funny. That was the other choice to the one I bought. I may still buy it to compare...
It's all personal preference and the camera doesn't show tones well. I can tell you that it isn't too bad at all. Just a bit warm at maybe 4000K. Little to no green or magenta shift. If one wants cooler just pick a light with 6500K instead of 5000K cool emitters, blue may be beneficial too. I'll take a pic later showing it net to my RGB-W light.
Also, humans are very good at adapting to tone and colour temperature changes. Differences in tone are only really evident when comparing to another light source. Ones eyes will generally adapt to a new light source and no longer see the tone.
My research, when I was into lighting years ago, showed humans prefer magenta tones(below the BBL) over green. No idea if that had changed...
I would guess that most aquariums are enjoyed in the evening hours though not at peak day. In the evening, the sun's colour temperature is quite warm with those attributes increased. Also, for anyone that has their aquariums in their living rooms, most use warmer lighting in there between 2700 - 4000K(2700 or 3000K is most common). So a 7000K aquarium light(just for instance) would look very out of place and be harsh on the eyes in the same room. Cooler colour temperatures are also high in blue light and have been proven to suppress melatonin production and cause various sleep and health issues(definitely not ideal in the room you are in before bedtime).
Lower wavelengths are also more damaging to our eyes and cause more issues long term.
Blue light also increases glare and less effectively penetrates particulate matter so it is a poor choice for street lights and headlights as well.
Knowing all of this and having all of my aquariums in my living room sways me towards warmer colour temperature lighting solutions overall. Even in the rest of my house, the coolest lighting I use is 5000K and that is only in work and laundry rooms. Living areas all use 2700 or 3000K and 4000K in the kitchen and hallways.
The ADA lights I have seen have a ridiculous spectrum imo and have hugely oversaturated and exaggerated colours nothing like real life. The analogy I think is valid is they look just like some modern phones amoled displays that exaggerate colours beyond real life. Personally, I want real colours that are rendered the way they are under natural sunlight. Not cartoon land exaggerated ones but, YMMV of course. I think a more balanced spectrum like the sun with less peaks and valleys is what to shoot personally.
We all have to like our displays...
That's funny as the AI Prime FW has one of the most complete and balanced spectrums of any light on the market as seen from the start of this thread. Yep, I think a lot just want a pure white. In my experience that means around 4500-5500K right on the black body locus... Definitely a little harder to get in a commercial grow light but, maybe not impossible...These are not 6 channel $50 lights .. 🙂
Point is they each have different target markets.
People complain the Ai primes are " too yellow"
How popular were " growlux" tubes and their rich color cast?
Yes, aquarium lights pricing is absolutely ridiculous. Everything in this hobby is hugely inflated it seams...
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FISHnLAB
Member
With all of that said, I still may buy an aquarium specific light for my new build(mainly for the ramping features and spectral control) I just think this topic deserves investigation/debate considering the ridiculous disparity between commercial grow light and aquarium light pricing. We are clearly being ripped off.
One thing is for certain for me, my propagation tanks will definitely have commercial grow lights over them going forward. This light is amazing for $37EUR and completely trounces anything in the aquarium field value wise. Aesthetics aside, it will likely grow plants better then any of them(including ADA) as well...
One thing is for certain for me, my propagation tanks will definitely have commercial grow lights over them going forward. This light is amazing for $37EUR and completely trounces anything in the aquarium field value wise. Aesthetics aside, it will likely grow plants better then any of them(including ADA) as well...
FISHnLAB
Member
I think this article fits with this discussion. I find the part about red light loss in water particularly interesting. One might want to get a light with a heavily red biased spectrum considering...
www.2hraquarist.com
Choosing the best light spectrum for planted tanks
What is the best light spectrum for a planted aquarium? Is 6500k lighting the best for plants? (no) An in-depth read on tuning light spectrum for better color and pigmentation for your planted tank.
www.2hraquarist.com
Any 6500k in an inexpensive fixture is a bad 6500k. 🙁
Applies to most expensive lights as well.
Yes can be balanced w/ warm whites.
As to the Meanwell thing.. lights $99 not $50...😉
My feeble defense. .
My 55 had, over time, Luminous Devices 4000k high cri cobs, 5400k SORRA violet pump high cri cobs, and luxeon 6500 " fresh fish" high cri ( per luxeon 96+) cobs over it.
All looked good, differences were subtile if not err " together" more extreme if side by side.
If I never put the 6500's on I may have been quite unaware of the tonal difference.
Most do seem to want really either a tad blue white (8000k and above k terms) and/ or a hint of more red.
Finnex uses 8000k ( 7000k, I forget) and added blue and/ or red ( old fugeray clip on)
I doubt anyone would be unhappy w/ the color.
Applies to most expensive lights as well.
Yes can be balanced w/ warm whites.
As to the Meanwell thing.. lights $99 not $50...😉
My feeble defense. .
My 55 had, over time, Luminous Devices 4000k high cri cobs, 5400k SORRA violet pump high cri cobs, and luxeon 6500 " fresh fish" high cri ( per luxeon 96+) cobs over it.
All looked good, differences were subtile if not err " together" more extreme if side by side.
If I never put the 6500's on I may have been quite unaware of the tonal difference.
Most do seem to want really either a tad blue white (8000k and above k terms) and/ or a hint of more red.
Finnex uses 8000k ( 7000k, I forget) and added blue and/ or red ( old fugeray clip on)
I doubt anyone would be unhappy w/ the color.
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FISHnLAB
Member
Yes, unfortunately companies like to cheap out and use low CRI emitters even though 90+ ones are easily available(same with in the home lighting world) but, pennies count and most customers don't even know what colour rendition is.
That's Canadian pricing I linked. Its 66 Euros all in here in Canada and it goes on sale lower then that if you watch. Still pretty damn cheap if you ask me compared to anything aquarium related on the market that I know of. I mean try and find anything with 256 Samsung LW301B & Osram emitters, a Meanwell Power Supply, that puts out 16439 Lumens@100watts with a good plant spectrum and even boosted reds to compensate for red loss underwater. For comparison a Chihiros WRGB 2 Pro 90 only puts out 9250 Lumens and it burns 10 more watts(110 watts@100%) to do it. All at 6.5 times the price😳.
Nice, that's some cool experiments. Maybe one day I will muster the motivation to build my own aquarium light.
My 3 gallon has a Nicrew RGB-W 24/7 on it that uses a mix of RGB and 6500K emitters so I have a direct comparison side by side. I know that it's a budget light but, it gives me an idea anyway. It definitely looks sharper and has less yellow cast overall due to the higher colour temp but, the cheap grow lights colour reproduction is still more then acceptable to me anyway(especially for a propagation tank).
Keep in mind I hate cool white too so I am biased on this topic. There isn't a single flashlight, light bulb, or fixture anywhere in my house that has anything higher then 5000K(well, I may have an old Surefire or two closer to 5500K) in it aside for my aquarium. 4500K is my preferred day/night compromise so it's what I shoot for in a daily use flashlight for instance. At night and when camping I would throw something at anyone who turns on anything higher then 4000K with 2000-3000K preferred lol.
Preference aside, if their aquariums are in their bedrooms or living rooms they must not like quality sleep lol. There are several studies on the detrimental effects of cool lighting. Some major cities have even retrofitted their entire streetlight grid due to not researching this first.
I might😁. Seriously though, my Nicrew looks great with its 6500K/RGB array(settings at 50%white/90%red/20green/25blue). So, maybe I can tolerate a bit cooler temps in an aquarium application when paired with RGB's. It would make it a lot easier if I could actually see some quality lights in person... Ah the joys of living in small town Canada😔...
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