maverick786us
Member
The calcium present in Aquarium fertilizer enough for shrimps and snails shell?
I use APT 3 and 1 lean dose
I use APT 3 and 1 lean dose
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Calcium for shrimps and snails
- Thread starter maverick786us
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Simon Cole
Member
maverick786us
Member
maverick786us
Member
Chattahoochee River is the source of water in my city
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
What do the <"snail shells"> look like? I use <"their appearance"> as an indication of when I need to add a <"bit more tap water">. With shrimps it depends on the species Cherry Shrimps like harder water and Bee Shrimps softer water.
It won't, none of the fertilisers will, mainly because of the issues with the solubility of <"calcium compounds">.
<"Columbus Water Works"> - some where it says "soft water".
cheers Darrel
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Oldguy
Member
When you wash your hands with real soap from your tap water that has not been softened, do you get froth/lather or scum. The latter will indicate hard water and former soft water.
Calcium and magnesium are seldom added to aquarium ferts, the assumption is that they will be in your tap water. (Not always the case).
Calcium for your shrimps and snails should come via food.
Erosion of snail shells is a function of pH.
I inject CO2 and have small snails with very thin shells. Red cherry shrimps are fine and are breeding well. (Moult before erosion becomes an issue.)
If you want to increase hardness try adding calcium sulphate (not very soluble, parts per million only ie mg per litre. Or limestone rocks or crushed cockle shell or similar to substrate
maverick786us
Member
My tank is new so is the live stock, they are all healthy. But I am new to shrimp, I have cherry shrimp and Amano Shrimp. While doing my research I read that these shrimp shed their shell and new shell starts developing in their body. For which they need constant source of calcium. But if it's available in their food, then I don't have to worry. If I add dry almond leaves, will it make it better?
I have soft water
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Oldguy
Member
Never been a fan of adding leaves, but others are. My Cherries and Amanos just get fish food, they are part of the clean up squad, but often behave like bandits when it come to flake. My shrimp also like cucumber slices that I put in for the Otocinlus catfish.
All best wishes for you tank and livestock. (Always interesting to hear from people in other parts of the world).
Oldguy
Member
Sorry, forgot to say that the 'shrimp experts' talk about hardness as a factor in ease of moulting, I am not an expert on shrimp but there are many articles on line that will help in this matter. I know a guy who breeds shrimp for part of his living and he is fairly nerdy about pH and hardness, then he breeds them by the thousands.
I adjust my tank water to be moderately hard, but with no alkalinity, with calcium and magnesium nitrates (both very soluble) and run a nutrient rich water column for plant growth. Estimated Index.
might be more helpful if you type the values out rather than posting difficult to read text on photos.
Looks like you have very soft water with a low gh (gh is like a measure of calcium).
You can get some gh+ to add to the water or you can get some shrimp food with minerals (e.g. glassgarten mineral junky) if you want to keep your new Neocaridina shrimp happy. I do a mix of both.
Some people on here will probably be able to suggest other alternatives to add calcium like sea shells, crushed coral or calcium powder but I have not used these methods.
You can get some gh+ to add to the water or you can get some shrimp food with minerals (e.g. glassgarten mineral junky) if you want to keep your new Neocaridina shrimp happy. I do a mix of both.
Some people on here will probably be able to suggest other alternatives to add calcium like sea shells, crushed coral or calcium powder but I have not used these methods.
Simon Cole
Member
@dw1305 recently gave me some great advice to look into calcium sulphate, I actually ended up getting the hemihydrate form. It is far more soluble than the dihydrate or anhydrous forms and dissolves readily up to 3 grams per litre. Now that would give you a 3003.43 ppm stock solution which contains 829.34 ppm calcium and 663.42 ppm sulphate ions. From there you can calculate your dilution factors. So if you had shrimp tank that was say a 45P (filled with 32 litres of pure ion-free water) then you would only have to add 867 ml of this stock solution in order to yield a target of 22.5 ppm calcium, or to put it another way - 2.6 grams of calcium sulphite hemihydrate will yield roughly 22.5 ppm in a 32 litre aquarium. We generally target a 3:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium (or higher) because these cations are antagonistic, and you can work it out from there. If you have a certain amount of calcium or magnesium in your local "Water Works" water quality report then you can factor that in. So there you go. A really simple way to add calcium to your water.
More expensive and simplistic methods of adding calcium (without sodium, chlorine or ammonia) would be to use a chelate. Calcium gluconate is one version of this, but in the USA you can get <Boca Hydro Chelated Calcium EDTA 14%> at $59.99 for 5 lbs (2.27 kg). These chelates dissolve readily but come with two major drawbacks. Firstly, they typically cost a lot more. Secondly, they do not add sulphate ions and therefore do not contribute to your waters ability to buffer pH swings. Shrimp keepers tend to go down the route of utilising substrates that buffer the water, but they also moan a lot about "old tank syndrome" which is the point at which the buffering ability of their substrate has expired and shrimp of snails are affected. In the same way that we might choose an Estimate Index form of dosing for plant fertilisation, if they could simply adopt the ethos that it is possible to consistantly and permenently maintain their desired water parameters then they would have fewer problems.
So what does this mean for shrimp and snails. Well I have thought for a long time that good diet and botanical/biological enrichment can help. We want shrimp to shed their shells with ease so that they do not die. We also want minimal shell attrition affecting snails. Shrimp typically have bi-directional movement of calcium through their cuticle (shell layer) actively facilitated by the enzyme Ca-ATPase (and sometimes passively by Na-osmosis), so this means that a calcium rich diet for them is fine, providing that the pH is roughly neutral. Snails are less lucky. Some are adapted to cope with lower calcium or pH levels, but those that evolved in the marine environment like those from the Neritidae family will probably continue to suffer from shell attrition despite dietary suppliments. I think shell grit etc. is a good solution; I am not too sure about using this for breeding Caridina without regular water testing, but I think for most other species like Neocaridina and for snails, it's great.
If we put all of this in context then clearly there is a conflict between high-tech soft water planted tanks and the requirements of certain fauna like nerite snails. But for a dedicated shrimp and snails planted tank, then you would typically choose plant species that are adapted to slightly harder water, or alternatively consider a lower rate of carbon dioxide enrichment and accordingly a lower rate of Net Primary Productivity (so lower light basically) to minimise the pH swing. Calcium has been conveniently overlooked by the aquarium ferts industry, but in commercial agriculture or horticulture it is a critical factor for successful plant growth. And you can understand why... customers would be reluctant to adopt a third fertiliser in their dosing regime - they want all-in-one solutions, few will have the patience to dissolve calcium sulphates, and even fewer will want to buy expensive and scarce (expensive to bulk order) calcium chelates on the hope that there will be enough softwater or pure-RO customers to buy them. It is far easier to sell magical botanticals, bags of soil, bacterial in a bottle, and all manner of spurious powders and concoctions.
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Andy Pierce
Member
Probably not something you needed to know but EGTA is much better at chelating calcium than EDTA is. That said, calcium sulphate sounds good to me.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I never understood why they need a substrate to remove something (and eventually get saturated) if they are using deionised water and get to choose everything that goes into the tank... Why not simply not add whatever it is that the substrate is supposed to be removing from the water?
When I had to add calcium to my tank, I added the powder right into the filter inlet. All the turbulence and high flow would help dissolve it more than I could by stirring the sample before mixing. And if it wouldn't dissolve completely, at least it would disperse the salt equally around the tank, allowing it to dissolve quickly enough.
maverick786us
Member
My Amano shrimp are full of mystery. I bought 4 XL sized Amanos, but I could only spot 1 or 2 at a time making me worried that rest of them are dead. Today I was lucky to find 3. And yes they are true bandits, whenever I drop sinking pallets that is meant to be shared by all the inhabitants. These bad ass boys lift the whole pallet and take it somewhere hiding. The fishes don't have legs so they cannot lift it, the cherry shrimps are too small to lift it
maverick786us
Member
