building a 1200L nature aquarium with Wild Discus & jungle-nature feel

[aeneas]

They agreed to take the glass apart and completely reseal again. Will extend the whole process for approx 2 weeks...

 

[ScapingScotsman]

Awww man, what a shame. How soon after it was put together was it water tested. Maybe it was done to early. I had tanks made many years ago and even after delivery I was always advised to wait a minimum of 14 days
What an epic tank though😁😁😁😁

 

[shangman]

That's great, I know it's frustrating that it's being delayed but it's worth it in the long run to make sure it's safe and perfect. You don't want to have done all this work for it to leak later on and ruin your house and your scape!

 

[HarrietHippo]

Definitely worth getting it done properly rather than doing a bodge job and stressing about it for the next few years. Good luck with the rest of the project - looks fantastic. Lucky fish.

 

[aeneas]

A quick update: tank resealed (completely) and this time looking good!
Scaped and planted; here is a quick view... pls excuse the ugly stones which are used to keep the wood from floating until it soaks enough to stay submerged... also added lots of Tetra SafeStart bacteria as well as filter sponges and biomedia from my old 400L tank so cycling should hopefully not take too long. Added some fish from my old tank to get the "biology" of the tank going... Let me know what you think!
Now I need to figure out how to set-up these Mitras lights to have a good lighting schedule. They are amazing lights but the interface is not very user friendly to be honest

and a shot of the sump area... still a few items missing, but getting there:

 

[shangman]

Congratulations!!! It looks great

 

[Deano3]

Glad got sorted and peice of mind and tank looks great with some serious kit

Sent from my SM-T595 using Tapatalk

 

[MichaelJ]

Wow! Congrats!

 

[bazz]

Looks very nice. keep us posted!

 

[Wookii]

@aeneas how are you getting on with this tank? What did you sort out in the end for your automated water changes?

I’ve just ordered this product for my forth coming larger tank, and thought back to your original query:

Kamoer X2SR Pro Water Change Pump | D-D The Aquarium Solution

www.theaquariumsolution.com

Also @X3NiTH, how are you getting on with the Innovitech X-Filter, I assume you’ve been living with it for a while now? - I’m thinking of getting one for a fourth coming sump system

 

[X3NiTH]

Embarrassed to say I haven’t got the tank I’m intended using it on set up yet, impetus is gathering and I have the parts I need to modify my outlets to allow me to service the unit easily. It’s still the best filter roller out there according to others I talk to regularly who have been through a few of the other brands. Does the job and keeps on trucking apparently, not yet heard any negative feedback.

Red Sea are bringing out a filter roller soon but it’s not a compact unit, they’ve missed a trick by not building ones to fit their kit, I have a Red Sea reefer 170 and the last thing I want to be doing is removing the internal sump baffles to fit one, I’d rather have the one that BRS built for the 170 that fits without modification but they’re not available in the UK which is a shame.

 

[aeneas]

@aeneas how are you getting on with this tank? What did you sort out in the end for your automated water changes?

Also @X3NiTH, how are you getting on with the Innovitech X-Filter, I assume you’ve been living with it for a while now? - I’m thinking of getting one for a fourth coming sump system

Sorry guys for such a long period of silence. It has been a crazy period in my work/private life and was hardly able to keep up with it all. The tank is set-up, the fish seem to be quite happy, but I cannot get algae under control. Will write more in the coming (long) post. This is just a quick reply to the two questions:
- I did go with the Innovitech X-filter; it is working well and if set-up properly is not used up too quickly. One role kept me for ~6 months and I just had to replace the 1st one last week. So pretty good in terms of economics. Whether it really adds much in terms of prefiltering, I do not know honestly... the sump does a good job overall.

 

[aeneas]

Hi all,
it has been way too long since my last post. It has been a crazy period in my work/private life and was hardly able to keep up with it all. In short, the tank is set-up, the fish seem to be quite happy, but I cannot get algae under control.

The final set-up is as follows:

• Computer control: GHL Profilux 4
• Sensors / probes: pH, Temperature, Conductivity and Redox
• Pump: Red Dragon 3 Speedy 100W
• Lights: 4x GHL Mitras LX7004
• Sump with simple horizontal flow; lots of mechanical and bio-filtration media and peat
• Innovitech X-filter as a pre-filter
• CO2 electronics by CO2Art
• CO2 diffusion in a large Cerges-style reactor
• UV filter by VIQUA model VH410
• Eheim e400 heater and Eheim Pro 400 air pump
• AWC with reverse osmosis (5-stage with an active pump etc.)
• remineralization of the RO water using Seachem equilibrium

***I also do have a GHL pump with 4x pump heads for automatic fertilization and 2x GHL floater sensors for AWC, but these are not activated yet... no time

Water parameters (using JBL Pro Aquatest kit):
NO2 (0.15 ppm), NO3 (5 ppm), NH4 (<0.05 ppm), PO4 (0.05 ppm), Fe (0), KH (4.5), pH (6.4), T (28), Conductivity (351uS), Redox (205mV); if tables are correct, the calculation of CO2 from KH and pH, the CO2 should be at ~50ppm - is this correct?

Fertilizers, minerals etc.:
Because I used huge amounts of nutrient rich Tropica soil, I figured for some time I would not need to add significant fertilization, so I only add several caps of the Seachem Flourish to the water and remineralize with Seachem Equilibrium to reach ~300us conductivity.
The lights are up for 10h, of which 2h are very dark morning/evening light and only 4h at max light and the rest is ramp up and ramp down.

In short, the summary so far:

• as you know, the aquarium build was being delayed, the wild discus were waiting to be shipped in Portugal (Santarem); to speed up the cycling process I added a few bottles of Tetra Safestart bacteria and the filter media from my old tank to the sump. Cycling went incredibly fast and within ~5 days or so the entire cycle completed and stabilised. However, adding old filter media was a BIG mistake! Although I took great care there were no snails, there must have been eggs in the filter media - I now have a major snail infestation. In the old tank the snails were kept in check by clown loaches, but in this discus tank I decided NOT to have clown loaches - they are just a bit too hectic for the peaceful scenery... what should I do to get rid of them?
• I kept cycling the tank for another ~2 weeks, slowly adding the small fish and then the 12 wild discus from Santarem Discus.
• the tank also has a support crew of many Ottos, various Neritina and Corona snails and I also bought ~50 XXL Amano Shrimp
• strangely, contrary to what most people said, the Neritina and Corona snails happily stay in the tank (open top) and never venture out...
• however, I lost at least half of the Amano Shrimp by them choosing to jump out and I was finding them all over the place - even 10m away from the tank
• I saw once that a group of Discus attached a shrimp alive and chewed him up... but other than that, the shrimp do not seem to be a major target for Discus and are left alone

Problems:

• soon after cycling completed, algae started appearing. My worst nightmare are the "hair algae" - they completely fill up the tank within 7 to 10 days; I need to continuously remove them. They killed many plants already - most moss was destroyed by these algae, as well as many of the nice Buce plants and H'ra is continuously under attack. It seems whenever the hair algae overgrow, all the Discus get darker colour - they really are not liking something in the water... as soon as I clean up the aquarium from the algae, the Discus regain their full colour, even without a major water change... so strange.
• I also have some BBA algae, but these are not such a major issue
• occasionally a small patch of cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) appear, but again, these are not a major issue and can be removed quickly

...it is really the hair algae that are a huge menace and I have no idea what to do about them. Clearly the small group of remaining Amanos are no match for them and I do think the Amanos stick to the hidden areas in the roots so that they are protected from Discus... they do not venture out much.

Below are some photos to give you some idea of the tank and the fish at the moment. I did not have time to make really good ones, but will make some more effort in the future. If you can help with some suggestions on how to better establish the right ecosystem and balance of nutrients, ferts, CO2 etc. to reach the more suitable environment for plants and less suitable for the algae, that would be greatly appreciated.

The layout:

A detail on the left:

The magnificent wilds:

Some individual photos:

And now the uglies... these are the algae that are getting worse and worse... literally they overgrow the ENTIRE tank within 7 to 10 days and the fish can somehow feel something that the algae are producing as they become dark and less active when the algae overgrow... WHAT TO DO??? I do not have an "overgrowth" picture at the moment, but you know how it is... I'll try to take one next time before I am cleaning.

 

[aeneas]

One thing I forgot to mention... I have no CO2 control. Considering the large tank, I just have a continuous open flow of bubbles - not a massive speed but a continuous drizzle. I just had no time to play with tuning.
So I do realise most likely my poor plant growth and algae overgrowth is due to inproper CO2 + fert balance, but would really appreciate some tips to get me started on the right path to solve this problem.

 

[Wookii]

They are stunning Discus!

 

[Conort2]

Hi all,
it has been way too long since my last post. It has been a crazy period in my work/private life and was hardly able to keep up with it all. In short, the tank is set-up, the fish seem to be quite happy, but I cannot get algae under control.

The final set-up is as follows:

• Computer control: GHL Profilux 4
• Sensors / probes: pH, Temperature, Conductivity and Redox
• Pump: Red Dragon 3 Speedy 100W
• Lights: 4x GHL Mitras LX7004
• Sump with simple horizontal flow; lots of mechanical and bio-filtration media and peat
• Innovitech X-filter as a pre-filter
• CO2 electronics by CO2Art
• CO2 diffusion in a large Cerges-style reactor
• UV filter by VIQUA model VH410
• Eheim e400 heater and Eheim Pro 400 air pump
• AWC with reverse osmosis (5-stage with an active pump etc.)
• remineralization of the RO water using Seachem equilibrium

***I also do have a GHL pump with 4x pump heads for automatic fertilization and 2x GHL floater sensors for AWC, but these are not activated yet... no time

Water parameters (using JBL Pro Aquatest kit):
NO2 (0.15 ppm), NO3 (5 ppm), NH4 (<0.05 ppm), PO4 (0.05 ppm), Fe (0), KH (4.5), pH (6.4), T (28), Conductivity (351uS), Redox (205mV); if tables are correct, the calculation of CO2 from KH and pH, the CO2 should be at ~50ppm - is this correct?

Fertilizers, minerals etc.:
Because I used huge amounts of nutrient rich Tropica soil, I figured for some time I would not need to add significant fertilization, so I only add several caps of the Seachem Flourish to the water and remineralize with Seachem Equilibrium to reach ~300us conductivity.
The lights are up for 10h, of which 2h are very dark morning/evening light and only 4h at max light and the rest is ramp up and ramp down.

In short, the summary so far:

• as you know, the aquarium build was being delayed, the wild discus were waiting to be shipped in Portugal (Santarem); to speed up the cycling process I added a few bottles of Tetra Safestart bacteria and the filter media from my old tank to the sump. Cycling went incredibly fast and within ~5 days or so the entire cycle completed and stabilised. However, adding old filter media was a BIG mistake! Although I took great care there were no snails, there must have been eggs in the filter media - I now have a major snail infestation. In the old tank the snails were kept in check by clown loaches, but in this discus tank I decided NOT to have clown loaches - they are just a bit too hectic for the peaceful scenery... what should I do to get rid of them?
• I kept cycling the tank for another ~2 weeks, slowly adding the small fish and then the 12 wild discus from Santarem Discus.
• the tank also has a support crew of many Ottos, various Neritina and Corona snails and I also bought ~50 XXL Amano Shrimp
• strangely, contrary to what most people said, the Neritina and Corona snails happily stay in the tank (open top) and never venture out...
• however, I lost at least half of the Amano Shrimp by them choosing to jump out and I was finding them all over the place - even 10m away from the tank
• I saw once that a group of Discus attached a shrimp alive and chewed him up... but other than that, the shrimp do not seem to be a major target for Discus and are left alone

Problems:

• soon after cycling completed, algae started appearing. My worst nightmare are the "hair algae" - they completely fill up the tank within 7 to 10 days; I need to continuously remove them. They killed many plants already - most moss was destroyed by these algae, as well as many of the nice Buce plants and H'ra is continuously under attack. It seems whenever the hair algae overgrow, all the Discus get darker colour - they really are not liking something in the water... as soon as I clean up the aquarium from the algae, the Discus regain their full colour, even without a major water change... so strange.
• I also have some BBA algae, but these are not such a major issue
• occasionally a small patch of cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) appear, but again, these are not a major issue and can be removed quickly

...it is really the hair algae that are a huge menace and I have no idea what to do about them. Clearly the small group of remaining Amanos are no match for them and I do think the Amanos stick to the hidden areas in the roots so that they are protected from Discus... they do not venture out much.

Below are some photos to give you some idea of the tank and the fish at the moment. I did not have time to make really good ones, but will make some more effort in the future. If you can help with some suggestions on how to better establish the right ecosystem and balance of nutrients, ferts, CO2 etc. to reach the more suitable environment for plants and less suitable for the algae, that would be greatly appreciated.

The layout:

A detail on the left:

The magnificent wilds:

Some individual photos:

And now the uglies... these are the algae that are getting worse and worse... literally they overgrow the ENTIRE tank within 7 to 10 days and the fish can somehow feel something that the algae are producing as they become dark and less active when the algae overgrow... WHAT TO DO??? I do not have an "overgrowth" picture at the moment, but you know how it is... I'll try to take one next time before I am cleaning.

They’re lovely wilds, special fish there. If I’m honest I’d do away with trying to make this high tech and concentrate on the fish. They’d look great with just driftwood and a few easy plants.

 

[aeneas]

They’re lovely wilds, special fish there. If I’m honest I’d do away with trying to make this high tech and concentrate on the fish. They’d look great with just driftwood and a few easy plants.

Haha... I know. But this is not an option at the moment... I really want to make this work as a nature aquarium. If all fails after a year or two of working on it, then I may give in, but not before trying to do as much as possible.
So if you guys can help out figuring out how to establish the right parameters for these algae to go away and for the plants to grow better, that would be very appreciated!

 

[Wookii]

figured for some time I would not need to add significant fertilization

The lights are up for 10h, of which 2h are very dark morning/evening light and only 4h at max light and the rest is ramp up and ramp down.

I have no CO2 control

I suspect those are your issues right there. Too much light, too little/incomplete fertilisation, and unknown CO2 levels.

I’d turn down the lights, and maybe reduce the lighting period. It’s always difficult to tell from a photo as the camera self adjusts the exposure, but it looks very bright to me. You can also get a load of floating plants - they quickly add to the plant mass and help cut light to the tank,

You also need to get yourself a comprehensive fertiliser. On such a large tank long term you want to be mixing your own with dry salts, but for now get an off the shelf one to tide you over if you are so busy. Seachem flourish is not a complete fertiliser.

You then need to get a handle on where your CO2 is at - it could well be fine and consistent, but without a pH profile and/or drop check inspection, you’re shootings in the dark.

 

[aeneas]

I suspect those are your issues right there. Too much light, too little/incomplete fertilisation, and unknown CO2 levels.

I’d turn down the lights, and maybe reduce the lighting period. It’s always difficult to tell from a photo as the camera self adjusts the exposure, but it looks very bright to me. You can also get a load of floating plants - they quickly add to the plant mass and help cut light to the tank,

You also need to get yourself a comprehensive fertiliser. On such a large tank long term you want to be mixing your own with dry salts, but for now get an off the shelf one to tide you over if you are so busy. Seachem flourish is not a complete fertiliser.

You then need to get a handle on where your CO2 is at - it could well be fine and consistent, but without a pH profile and/or drop check inspection, you’re shootings in the dark.

lights

I will try to tune down the lights a bit - perhaps 8h total with 2h peak.

fertiliser

What would you recommend as a comprehensive solution that is available in Europe?

CO2

Would a drop checker be informative in such a soft and acidic water? If I understand correctly, that one only responds to pH, but the CO2 would in a way be dependent on both KH and pH or not?

 

[Wookii]

I will try to tune down the lights a bit - perhaps 8h total with 2h peak.

I don't personally like long ramps at the start and end of the photo period. You can mess around with sunrises and sunsets once the tank is mature and established - when a tank is new I think consistency and stability helps more. I tend to use a 10 minute ramp for the benefit of the livestock, and then sit the rest of the time at my target light level. For your system, I would also reduce the max output significantly. When you say "2hr peak" is that with the light at 100%? If so, reduce that peak down to 50-60% perhaps, to start with until you get the algae under control.

What would you recommend as a comprehensive solution that is available in Europe?

In the UK we have access to TNC Complete which is about our best bang for buck on an all in one fert. If that isn't available in Slovenia, perhaps look out for APT Complete EI. NilocG Thrive is common in the US, so that might be an option if it is available in your country.

Would a drop checker be informative in such a soft and acidic water? If I understand correctly, that one only responds to pH, but the CO2 would in a way be dependent on both KH and pH or not?

No, a drop checker works so well because its liquid is completely independent of the tank water - so the parameters of the tank water become irrelevant.

The indicator liquid is a set 4dKH, and the drop checker has an air gap between that liquid and the tank water. CO2 diffuses across the air-gap until the indicator liquid is in CO2 equilibrium with the tank water, and the resulting colour change will then tell you the level of dissolved CO2 in the tank water. It produces a consistent, repeatable and reliable visual indication of CO2 level - the only downside to it is it can take up to 2 hours for the gas to reach equilibrium so there is in effect a time delay. The way to account for that is to ensure the gas comes on early enough to ensure the drop checker solution is green when the lights come on.