Hi
@FISHnLAB I think you might have misunderstood my original comment on the topic.
I may have. Sorry if so, it's hard with only words sometimes. I tend to come off as harsh sometimes too and that isn't always my intention🍻.
First off, I have done a lot of research on the topic back when I was using the product - there is not much hard science on the use of these products that you can take to the bank, unfortunately.
There actually is plenty of hard science on the topic including many published studies. Glut has been used for decades to disinfect medical and dental equipment like I said. The same tools that immediately go into surgery and into ones mouth and body cavities including endoscopes. There have been reports of issues in techs that get exposed to it daily over many years but, exposure was in higher concentrations then we get in an aquarium specific product and over a period of years. Here, from the man himself...
There are also studies into its use in the aquarium hobby. I believe one was done by Dr. Greg Morin but, I can't seam to find a link. Heck, you can easily do one yourself like many others have if you want to know.
I have seen/read tons of testimonials and discussions including posts from Clive and Darrel on the use of so-called liquid Carbon (including Seachem Excel). For some it works wonderfully for some it don't - placebo? perhaps, perhaps not.
Like I said, if you dig there are a number of people who have run blind tests with 2 identical tanks. It's pretty hard to deny it when in two identical tanks, with plants from the same in-vitro cup, one with and one without glut/excel and there is a clear difference in the tanks outcome.
I am not an alarmist, I am just pointing out the potential hazards of using these products (one of its main uses is as an algaecide after all..) and will continue to do so.
There is plenty of alarmism surrounding this topic all over the net, I wasn't trying to single you out specifically. Main uses in this industry maybe. These products have been used for many years in other fields safely. I believe a wise man once said it isn't the medicine that's dangerous but, the dosage...
I didn't even touch on the potential hazards for fish and in particular invertebrates if accidentally overdosed - same goes for gaseous CO2.
Yep, water conditioners, medicinal treatments, and even some health additives can be dangerous or even deadly to our wildlife if used incorrectly or in excess. I can tell you that there are examples all over the internet of people dosing glut and getting 5 or more years out of fish that others can't get half that from. Personally I think the hype around the safety of this topic is alarmist and unwarranted but, YMMV of course.
Anyway, just to make it clear: If you follow the dosing instruction, make sure you don't get any bodily exposure to the product it's likely perfectly safe to use.
Yep, and even if you get a little of this highly diluted and polymerized form, in the case of Excel, on you you will also be fine and likely are exposed to more badies and actual carcinogens changing your cars oil. Really, if you ever go to the dentist or the doctor you are likely already being exposed to small amounts of Glut and other disinfectants and biocides. Heck, some of the stuff they use to clean the fountain drink machines and other stuff at chain restaurants is regularly added to your diet(recently in the news, some have been poisoned by these products and are scarred for life).
Trying to avoid chemicals in this poison filled world we built is an exercise in futility imo. Half of the food we buy and eat is wrapped in carcinogenic products made from crude oil. Our pans are lined with antistick coatings that kill birds if overheated and get into every living thing in our ecosystems even though they were supposed to be banned years ago. Recently scientists have found microplastics(made up of carcinogenic crude oil) in every living thing they looked at, even deep in the living things organs. VOC's known to cause medical issues and cancer emit from nearly everything we own. I could go on, the point is we are already screwed so why worry lol...
If you are looking for a boost in plant growth and you find that the product works with no ill side effects? Wonderful!! 🙂
Yes, better plant growth is good😁. We all know the best medicine for that is CO2 but, it has its share of dangers to one's wildlife and self as well. It's on my try list though😂.
I have used the product myself for an extended period of time back in the day in two different tanks. I have had very mixed experiences from using it - anecdotal as it is. Not much, if any, increased plant growth/health and I've lost mosses and most likely Vallisneria sp. while using it - could that have been due to something else? unlikely, but not impossible.
Well, you saw the pics of my tank. That's three months of Excel and my moss is growing like stink. Maybe it was just a dosage thing? I do hear that some plants are definitely sensitive to it in higher doses though.
Sounds like a good plan! 🙂
Cheers,
Michael
Thanks. I hope it works😁. If not, I'll be back here for the thought provoking discussion. Thanks for your help Michael and I hope you aren't offended by our little debate😉👍.
