BBA I've tried everything

[FerdinandPorsche]

There are a couple of reasons. The normal reason is poor distribution of the flow, which depends a lot on how the filter output is arranged. Another classic reason is that the timing of the gas in relation to the timing of the lights. Finally, the dissolution dissolution method might be weak. The placement of the diffuser is always an issue. Try porting the gas into the filter inlet and measuring the pH drop over the period of time from gas on to lights off at 30 minute or 1 hour intervals and this will tell you a lot about how the gas is behaving.


It would be more useful to sharply reduce the intensity of the light. Intensity is much more important than photoperiod length.

Cheers,

Do you mean that, from the time my co2 is released into the tank till the end of light period, check for every 30 minutes / an hour, the pH value of the tank water. I have a drop checker inside the tank, and so far, it takes 3+ hours for the drop checker to turn into complete yellow. Both lights and co2 are turned on nearly the same time (difference of 15minutes max) Does it mean I should turn on my co2 system 3 hours earlier?

For the co2, I am also facing an issue with my inline diffuser, probably getting it replaced should promise better diffused bubbles into the water flow.

I do understand that intensity is more crucial compared to the period. I ask this because I do not have another lighting for this. Although I won't be able to do this, will raising the light help to reduce to intensity (I believe so?)

 

[ceg4048]

it takes 3+ hours for the drop checker to turn into complete yellow.

That's the problem with the dropchecker and that's why you need to investigate the direct pH readings as a function of time.

Both lights and co2 are turned on nearly the same time (difference of 15minutes max)

That is most likely the root cause of your problem.

Does it mean I should turn on my co2 system 3 hours earlier?

Possibly. It depends on the injection rate. Your BBA is caused by lights turning on, plants needing huge amounts of CO2 but CO2 is still low. Gas needs to go on an saturate the water column prior to lights going on. Typically, for water that is medium alkalinity, i.e 8-10 KH the pH should drop a full unit from gas on to lights on. How many hours and via what injection rate is determined by experimentation. That is the skill and art of CO2 application.

I do understand that intensity is more crucial compared to the period. I ask this because I do not have another lighting for this. Although I won't be able to do this, will raising the light help to reduce to intensity (I believe so?)

Yes. There is an inverse relationship between the distance of the bulb and the intensity. Study the chart in theis post Dymax Tropical 36 watt | Page 4 | UK Aquatic Plant Society find the line that corresponds to your bulb type and raise the fixture so that you stay out of the yell and somewhere between the blue and the pink. The closer you are to the blue the fewer problems you will have.

Cheers,

 

[FerdinandPorsche]

That's the problem with the dropchecker and that's why you need to investigate the direct pH readings as a function of time.

By getting the result of pH readings, what can I conclude from the possible outcome? I'll get a pH tester and come back on this issue.

FerdinandPorsche said: ↑
Both lights and co2 are turned on nearly the same time (difference of 15minutes max)
That is most likely the root cause of your problem.

FerdinandPorsche said: ↑
Does it mean I should turn on my co2 system 3 hours earlier?
Possibly. It depends on the injection rate. Your BBA is caused by lights turning on, plants needing huge amounts of CO2 but CO2 is still low. Gas needs to go on an saturate the water column prior to lights going on. Typically, for water that is medium alkalinity, i.e 8-10 KH the pH should drop a full unit from gas on to lights on. How many hours and via what injection rate is determined by experimentation. That is the skill and art of CO2 application.

Basically, my objective is to reach the optimum CO2 level (green to yellow) before or by the time lights are on (right?). This is indeed a skill that needs experiment and fine tuning. But in the end, can we justify whether our experiment is correct by any sorts of measurement, or the justification comes from the plant health.

 

[FerdinandPorsche]

That's the problem with the dropchecker and that's why you need to investigate the direct pH readings as a function of time.
Yes. There is an inverse relationship between the distance of the bulb and the intensity. Study the chart in theis post Dymax Tropical 36 watt | Page 4 | UK Aquatic Plant Society find the line that corresponds to your bulb type and raise the fixture so that you stay out of the yell and somewhere between the blue and the pink. The closer you are to the blue the fewer problems you will have.

The graph does not show for LED type of lighting. I guess it is because LED is hard to justify based on the different numbers of LED nodes.

 

[ceg4048]

By getting the result of pH readings, what can I conclude from the possible outcome? I'll get a pH tester and come back on this issue.

It's very easy. There is a direct relationship between the pH, KH and the amount of acid in the water. That's how your dropchecker works. The liquid in your DC is Bromthymol Blue, which is a pH reagent. It simply changes color when the pH of the water sample changes. The acid that we are interested in is Carbonic acid, which is produced in the water column when CO2 dissolves in the water. Therefore we can track the availability of dissolved CO2 by tracking the change of pH over time. We don't use the data to determine absolute values, only the amount of change, which is good enough for our purposes. A pH drop of a certain amount tells us that the amount of CO2 dissolved over that time period is sufficient.

Although a pH probe is a better option, since you already have Bromo Blue you can start looking at the data straight away.

Basically, my objective is to reach the optimum CO2 level (green to yellow) before or by the time lights are on (right?). This is indeed a skill that needs experiment and fine tuning. But in the end, can we justify whether our experiment is correct by any sorts of measurement, or the justification comes from the plant health.

Forget about measurement unless you can afford to buy a CO2 probe. I mean, if your BBA goes away then that's your justification.

Cheers,

 

[ceg4048]

The graph does not show for LED type of lighting. I guess it is because LED is hard to justify based on the different numbers of LED nodes.

If you are using LED then it's likely that you will need to have a dimmer installed to reduce the intensity. You can drop the intensity to no more than about 20% for the moment, or if no dimmer is available then you'll have to find another way to obscure the light such as raising the fixture. Or, you ay not need to do this if the CO2 is fixed.

Cheers,

 

[FerdinandPorsche]

If you are using LED then it's likely that you will need to have a dimmer installed to reduce the intensity. You can drop the intensity to no more than about 20% for the moment, or if no dimmer is available then you'll have to find another way to obscure the light such as raising the fixture. Or, you ay not need to do this if the CO2 is fixed.

Cheers,

I'm setting the co2 to 3 hours earlier and make sure that observe whether it is green / yellow by the time lights are on.

 

[ceg4048]

You need to look at the pH profile. Do not depend on the DC. It's a test kit and test kits tell lies....regularly.

Cheers,

 

[zanguli-ya-zamba]

The graph does not show for LED type of lighting. I guess it is because LED is hard to justify based on the different numbers of LED nodes.

Hi
If you click the link, you will go to the forum, from there you look for the new thread about this. They have add many graph and also they have put graph and infos about LED light.
I have read it three day ago, so I confirm that you will find the info.

For you Ph profile it would be better to not follow the drop checker 😉.
To figure what is happening with you co2 you need multiple values.


Cheers

 

[FerdinandPorsche]

Hi
If you click the link, you will go to the forum, from there you look for the new thread about this. They have add many graph and also they have put graph and infos about LED light.
I have read it three day ago, so I confirm that you will find the info.

For you Ph profile it would be better to not follow the drop checker 😉.
To figure what is happening with you co2 you need multiple values.


Cheers

Too bad they don't have the information on my led brand. But it gives me rough idea, I should be suspending it around 10-15 inches to get around 50micromols.

You need to look at the pH profile. Do not depend on the DC. It's a test kit and test kits tell lies....regularly.

Cheers,

I am trying to do a pH profiling. Barely 1hour left to lights out, I was trying to test for pH. Using the co2 test kit that I already had, I was wondering how to test the pH. I took out 5ml of water from the tank, poured 5 drops of co2 test liquid. The 1st drop was already transparent blue, 5 drops made it bluish. Is it co2 deficiency?

 

[ceg4048]

You don't need to add so many drops. Just a couple of drops will do. If it's blue then the CO2 is low so you may have an injection too low. The CO2 test reagent is exactly the same as any low range pH test reagent. It's just Bromothymol Blue. There are some color charts available if you don't have tone already. You can probably find them online.

Cheers,

 

[FerdinandPorsche]

You don't need to add so many drops. Just a couple of drops will do. If it's blue then the CO2 is low so you may have an injection too low. The CO2 test reagent is exactly the same as any low range pH test reagent. It's just Bromothymol Blue. There are some color charts available if you don't have tone already. You can probably find them online.

Cheers,

Because the product manual mentions 5drops, hence the reason why. Basically 1drop or 5drops, the objective is to see the color of the water right. All this while I thought I am having good co2 flow. I do have a sticker for the color charts, it is from blue to green to yellow.

 

[ceg4048]

Well the product manual wants you to run out of reagent 5X faster so you can buy more reagent. Only add more drops if you have trouble reading the colors. The color will not change from one drop to the next it will only be a more intense colr which makes it easier to see when it\s mounted in the tank.

Cheers,

 

[FerdinandPorsche]

After making the changes for my inline diffuser from the outlet to the inlet, finer bubbles are observed. However, testing the pH after an hour of the said change is still bluish. Any clues?

 

[ceg4048]

Well, either your reagent is faulty or your injection rate is faulty. It's easy enough to test the reagent by adding a drop of lemon juice or vinegar to see if it turns yellow. If it does then you know the reagent is fine and that your injection rate needs adjustment. Be careful not to gas your fish though...

Cheers,

 

[FerdinandPorsche]

Well, either your reagent is faulty or your injection rate is faulty. It's easy enough to test the reagent by adding a drop of lemon juice or vinegar to see if it turns yellow. If it does then you know the reagent is fine and that your injection rate needs adjustment. Be careful not to gas your fish though...

Cheers,

The reagent does turn yellow in the DC. Maybe the injection rate is not high but then again the noticed increase in pearling should be a good sign after changing the inline diffuser from the outlet to inlet.

 

[ceg4048]

Yes, if that occurs then it's a good sign, but until you measure the pH change throughout the day it\s very difficult to assess what\s happening. You can have more pearling and still be in trouble.

Cheers,

 

[Rob P]

You need to look at the pH profile. Do not depend on the DC. It's a test kit and test kits tell lies....regularly.

Cheers,

I'd just like to throw into this that I had a panic attack last night when I saw this...



My bubble rate looked reasonable so I couldn't figure what had caused this, got my PH pen out and tested and the reading was 6.4 which it always is during injection and usually gives a green DC reading.

So swapped the fluid out as presumably it had gone faulty...

 

[akwarium]

What is the KH if I might ask?

 

[Rob P]

What is the KH if I might ask?

Me? No idea lol