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Bacteria and plant symbiosis

Easternlethal said:
I'm not a fan of adding bacteria because like all things, it needs to have sufficient nutrients in the tank to keep alive and generate sufficient quantities to benefit plants. We all hope that adding them to a new tank will kick start some sort of cycle but with insufficient conditions (organics and inorganics) they may judt as easily die.
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I think the idea is to add them regularly, just like one adds nutrients.
 
sciencefiction said:
I think the idea is to add them regularly, just like one adds nutrients.
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From my understanding bacterial populations are in a constant flux. A lot of people think that after the tank has been up and running they have a fully mature filter the filter still in flux. So best practice is to add bacterial products when you decided to feed more or when you clean out the filter. This is of course if you use bacterial products personally I think 90% are a waste of time.
 
Easternlethal said:
if it ain't growing naturally then why add?
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When humans take probiotics, why do they take them from time to time and not just once or in fact never because they are not naturally in your body? Any bacteria would multiply until they've got something to be had. After that they die but it is not to say their natural food in the tank would no longer be produced at some point in the future....so you just renew the population of bacteria from time to time...
 
sciencefiction said:
When humans take probiotics, why do they take them from time to time and not just once or in fact never because they are not naturally in your body? Any bacteria would multiply until they've got something to be had. After that they die but it is not to say their natural food in the tank would no longer be produced at some point in the future....so you just renew the population of bacteria from time to time...
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i think u missed my original point
 
Easternlethal said:
if it ain't growing naturally then why add?
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Easternlethal said:
I'm not a fan of adding bacteria because like all things, it needs to have sufficient nutrients in the tank to keep alive and generate sufficient quantities to benefit plants. We all hope that adding them to a new tank will kick start some sort of cycle but with insufficient conditions (organics and inorganics) they may judt as easily die.
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Which point did I miss?
 
Hi all,
jarcher1390 said:
From my understanding bacterial populations are in a constant flux
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I think that is likely to be right. The micro-organisms assemblage will be constantly changing, even over a relatively short time scale.

I'm not sure there is any scientific work on planted aquariums specifically (it is alluded too in <"Temporal and Spatial Stability of Ammonia-Oxidizing Archaea and Bacteria in Aquarium Biofilters"> and <"Performance of vertical flow wetlands...">), but I've just read Ed Yong's <"I contain multitudes........"> (a good read) and that has a lot about how variable the human gut micro-flora is, changing in composition almost meal by meal. One of the take home messages from the book is that <"complexity brings stability">, and that our gut flora, in the western world is impoverished compared to people who eat a less processed diet, and very impoverished compared to our great ape cousins. It also has quite a lot to say about antibiotics, and their positive and negative roles in body health.
jarcher1390 said:
A lot of people think that after the tank has been up and running they have a fully mature filter the filter still in flux. So best practice is to add bacterial products when you decided to feed more or when you clean out the filter....... personally I think 90% are a waste of time
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I think you are right, I don't think it is going to do any harm, but I'm not sure it is going to do any good either.

In an established planted tank, with a substrate, there are going to be a huge number of niches, with different levels of oxygenation, food supply etc., where conditions will favour different micro-organism assemblages, changes will occur as your plants grow, after you've added new fish, cleaned the filter, changed the oxygenation levels etc, but the assemblage will re-adjust to the new conditions fairly rapidly.

That is one reason why "plant/microbe biofiltration" is better than "microbe only" biofiltration, it supplies a wider range of niches.

This paper covers Aquarium filters (although not specifically planted tanks), <"Ammonia-oxidizing archaea in engineered biofiltration systems">, and it mentions increased micro-organism complexity at lower ammonia loadings.

cheers Darrel
 
zozo said:
Interesting that Bacillus subtilis i red a little about it and it's a sporophyte, darn resilient surviving skills. Traveling all over the planet found, in soils, dry sands, foods.. They not only help plants but also have positive propperties in animals like chickens and "shrimps", so why not in us as well. for short they actualy everywhere. Since it is found in soils in abundancy they are aslo be found on our patatos and carrots etc. and likely to end up under our fingernails while preparing meals. So with regularly sticking a finger in our tank we likely transfer some them over as well. But since they live about everywhere and symbiotic with plants etc, most likely also on algae and if you for example feed spirulina or other algae based preparations, chances are high you add B. subtilis spores as well.

But if you still are in doubt, they are for sale as shrimp food. 🙂
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well i dont mind good bacteria , its mycobacterium i am worried about , i always wash mine hands after tank maintain .
 
Product might be of some use in new set up, but I believe most any mature substrate will over time develop all manner of micro organisim's/bacterium, and regular use of the product would be moot point for most.(would/will develop naturally can't stop em).
But some folk's still swear by aquarium salt as regular tonic/ additive.🙄
 
limz_777 said:
i always wash mine hands after tank maintain
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Me too and after that i like to go skinny dipping in the lake behind my house. 🙄
 
Hey All

So been using the bacteria culture plus a new type of liquid CO2

From my observations the bacteria concoction has been destroying the biofilm on top of the tank. i've only been doing done 30% weekly water changes( tank in 3rd week of set up) i have very very limited amount of algae with a constant 10 hours photoperiod, but i have lots of plants although still in early stages and only 8 snails, no fish. Plants growth with just the bacteria was alright no exceptional growth.

Okay i've gotta admit that my findings here are very anecdotal and i can have no really basis of fact as i had no control or any experimental procedure. But going with just my gut feeling id say that it help get rid of the bio film on top of the water and i got away with very very very relaxed maintenance for the the last 2 week but did plants growth blow my mind? No

So this company also has a new Liquid Co2, it is not like the ones i used in the past which are a clear liquid with the glutaraldehyde in it. Their stuff is a sweet smelling thick brown liquid which is completely safe to shrimp and bacteria. From what i've been told its made from peat bogs or something and 100% natural. Might need to do some more research with this one to what it actually is. But this stuff works and works well. Each day i used it in the morning, i come back home from work the leaves on my glossostigma are bigger. The days i didn't use it the plants didn't seem to grow as quick, of course they grew as I'm pumping CO2 and fert in but not as much as the days i used the liquid CO2. Again i have no tests or any experimental procedure to show finding buy going with my gut their liquid Co2 was well worth the money.

Anyways thought id chip in my findings.
 
the company blurb on their liquid CO2
  • Contains high quality peat extract
  • Contains humic and fulvic acids
  • Contains a blend of naturally occurring vegetative and spore-forming microorganisms
  • Helps make iron, nitrogen and other nutrients more bioavailable
contains combinations of naturally occurring microorganisms that share key traits for plant enhancement. The photosynthetic organisms will inhabit the root and vascular systems of the plant helping to modify, retain and transport nutrients. Humic is the end product of organic matter decomposition. Organic matter has a high carbon content. When plants are removed from the environment where they are grown, natural balances are destroyed and growth may be disrupted. It is a good practice to restore the plants natural balances"

any thoughts?
 
sounds like the manufacturer went into his compost pile, squeezed out some of the moisture, added colouring, preservatives and came out with this blurb.
 
jarcher1390 said:
the company blurb on their liquid CO2
  • Contains high quality peat extract
  • Contains humic and fulvic acids
  • Contains a blend of naturally occurring vegetative and spore-forming microorganisms
  • Helps make iron, nitrogen and other nutrients more bioavailable
contains combinations of naturally occurring microorganisms that share key traits for plant enhancement. The photosynthetic organisms will inhabit the root and vascular systems of the plant helping to modify, retain and transport nutrients. Humic is the end product of organic matter decomposition. Organic matter has a high carbon content. When plants are removed from the environment where they are grown, natural balances are destroyed and growth may be disrupted. It is a good practice to restore the plants natural balances"

any thoughts?
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I am using this bio co2 product, and plants look healthy and less bba, considering I am not using co2 or glutaraldehyde.
 
@Wizard_g our shop has run out of it so I've not been able to use it and the plant growth has slowed.

Think I'm gonna ditch the other liquid co2 for this one for sure.
 
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