Aquatlantis Volga 240 Dutch Style

[dw1305]

Hi all,

but the balance certainly starts from the bottom, with the little guys.

Definitely the little guys.

This was what <"Ma, A: Daniels, E., Gulizia, N. & Brahamsha, B (2016) "Isolation of diverse amoebal grazers of freshwater cyanobacteria for the development of model systems to study predator–prey interactions", Algal Research, 13, pp 85 - 93"> say:

..... In the environment, eukaryotic grazers feeding upon prokaryotes shape microbial population structures, playing an influential role in food web dynamics. Natural grazers of cyanobacteria include small crustaceans, such as copepods and Daphnia species [16], [17], and protozoan grazers, such as amoebae, ciliates, heterotrophic flagellates, and mixotrophic flagellates [18]. In environmental field studies, ciliates and amoebae were associated with large reductions of cyanobacterial populations, and grazing was confirmed with feeding experiments [19], [20]. Amoebae in trophozoite stages generally crawl along surfaces through eruptive extrusion of pseudopodia, and many species feed by interception and ingestion of prey through phagocytic mechanisms. A notable exception is a group of amoebae called vampyrellids [21], which perforate cells and ingest the cytosolic content of prey species, which include algae and cyanobacteria [22] .......

I know (from squeezing out filter sponges, and looking at the debris) that you get a <"wide range of protozoans, rotifers"> etc.

If you want to have a "trial run" to see your fishes response to live rotifers, filter sponges are a great source. Just squeeze the sponge out into a beaker, and then give it a good swirl and you should be able to pipette (pipettes from here: <http://www.ta-aquaculture.co.uk/Miscellaneous.htm>) the rotifers out of the central vortex without getting too much mulm etc.

This might also be a reason for <"retaining some mulm"> in the tank, as a refuge for amoeba etc.

cheers Darrel

 

[milesjames]

anyone got any tips how to get rid off cyano bacteria ?
i dont get it if u have good plant growth, how do i still have this dredged bacteria.
i know hydrogen peroxide works, but its just a bandaid, so far what i tryed is more surface flow / and more flow in the down layers of the water.
The flowpump to the right.

Blue Green algea killer be gone in 3 days

 

[milesjames]

SO about your bacteria problem, this is partly a Dutch specific thing and also a basic less talked about issue.

So one of your issues is your trimming schedule. Even if you are having the worst algae issues in the world you should not be trimming more than 2-3 plants at any time, leaving 2 weeks for slow growers to recover and 1 week for fast growers to recover. Reason is that after a trim in the plants recovery stage the balance of the the tank changes. You need to have enough healthy plant mass at any time to ensure you don't get algae.

The second really is a Dutch setup thing. Flow is a major part of how to keep a healthy Dutch tank, this is the purpose of the 3-5cm gap between plant groups. In order to get perfect health, you need to think about where those gaps are in relation to the out/in flow of your tank. Try to keep gaps along the route of the flow and try to create a circular flow around the the tank so it hits the front. This way nutrients are distributed evenly and balance will be easily managed.

Lastly this is something you have already fixed. Don't put dwarf hair grass in the front of this type if tank this is more of a shallow/high energy Fert balanced type of plant. Very much not for Dutch; this, I always argue, should be in the advanced category as a plant its the worst unless you are growing very specific plants in a very specific way.

Hope this helps. 🙂

 

[aquagenetics]

Blue Green algea killer be gone in 3 days

I have Shrimp i dont wanna use chemicals, its also a bandaid and not the cause.

SO about your bacteria problem, this is partly a Dutch specific thing and also a basic less talked about issue.

So one of your issues is your trimming schedule. Even if you are having the worst algae issues in the world you should not be trimming more than 2-3 plants at any time, leaving 2 weeks for slow growers to recover and 1 week for fast growers to recover. Reason is that after a trim in the plants recovery stage the balance of the the tank changes. You need to have enough healthy plant mass at any time to ensure you don't get algae.

The second really is a Dutch setup thing. Flow is a major part of how to keep a healthy Dutch tank, this is the purpose of the 3-5cm gap between plant groups. In order to get perfect health, you need to think about where those gaps are in relation to the out/in flow of your tank. Try to keep gaps along the route of the flow and try to create a circular flow around the the tank so it hits the front. This way nutrients are distributed evenly and balance will be easily managed.

Lastly this is something you have already fixed. Don't put dwarf hair grass in the front of this type if tank this is more of a shallow/high energy Fert balanced type of plant. Very much not for Dutch; this, I always argue, should be in the advanced category as a plant its the worst unless you are growing very specific plants in a very specific way.

Hope this helps. 🙂

Its not a dutch tank, its a dutch style tank (thats how i dont have to abide by any rules) i dont like the rules a dutch scape brings.
the trimming had to be done, as you could see in the picture everything was already tall (i already had BGA before trimming) you can see that in the dwarf hairgrass for example. in the picture when i still had it.
i think i do have a circular flow already ?

 

[milesjames]

Hey buddy just trying to help not here to pass judgement. BGA is caused by too much light, poor plant health and poor CO2/ nutrient circulation. You have my suggestions if you ignore that's cool but save the attitude. No one cares what the style you scape is called plants blocking circulation is universal thing just more likely in dutch.

 

[aquagenetics]

Hey buddy just trying to help not here to pass judgement. BGA is caused by too much light, poor plant health and poor CO2/ nutrient circulation. You have my suggestions if you ignore that's cool but save the attitude. No one cares what the style you scape is called plants blocking circulation is universal thing just more likely in dutch.

Dutch Scapes have strict rules according to the NBAT, thats why its dutch style that had nothing to do with attitude, also when i said i dont wanna use any chemicals thats because i have shrimps. it didnt mean i ignored your advice, i'am just trying to solve this naturally.

 

[milesjames]

Hey mate listen, I'm bowing out. The natural route was in my last post. Good luck with the scape. Just remember there are only 5 variables light, fert, co2, plant health and flow. Good luck 👍

 

[seedoubleyou]

BGA is caused by too much light, poor plant health and poor CO2/ nutrient circulation

None of this is specifically true though. They may just be contributing factors.

 

[milesjames]

OK buddy like I say I'm done helping but for support purposes as i have dealt with this quite a bit and know how hard it is to beat. Here are the causes in black and white. The only reason why I haven't suggested clean your tank is because your a enthusiast who would know to do this first.

What Causes Cyanobacteria?​

A few different causes might explain cyanobacteria blooms. A common theme is that these blooms tend to happen in stagnant and nutrient-rich bodies of water. In aquariums, blue-green algae often appear in spots where there is leftover organic waste, like uneaten fish food.

The various causes of cyanobacteria include:

1. Imbalance in Nutrient Levels

One of the primary triggers for cyanobacteria outbreaks is an imbalance in nutrient levels. Cyanobacteria can easily take hold of an aquarium when there is an excess of essential nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorus in the water column.

To combat future outbreaks of any algal bloom, ensure you don't overfeed your fish. Perform regular water testing over the long term is essential to maintain the delicate nutrient balance in your aquarium. Additionally, consider adding nutrient-absorbing live plants to help keep levels within a healthy range.

• Tip: Floating plants or fast-growing stem plants are great choices for absorbing excess nutrients in an aquarium. We recommend Salvinia Cucullata or Egeria Densa.

2. Poor Water Circulation and Oxygenation

Stagnant water is an ideal breeding ground for future outbreaks. Poor water circulation prevents essential nutrients from reaching all areas of the tank, fostering the growth of cyanobacteria.

Ensure you have a quality filter for your aquarium with an acceptable flow rate for your tank size. You can also invest in a water pump and strategically position it to ensure optimal circulation. Adequate oxygenation is equally vital, as cyanobacteria struggle to thrive in well-oxygenated environments. Regular water changes and aeration devices can make a significant difference in the occurrence and frequency of future outbreaks.

3. Organic Matter Buildup in Substrate

Neglecting the aquarium substrate is another common mistake of hobbyists who find themselves battling an infestation. Organic matter, such as uneaten food and decaying plant material, accumulates over time in the substrate bed. This provides cyanobacteria with a rich source of nutrients.

Regular vacuuming of the substrate during water changes can help eliminate this breeding ground. However, it's best to vacuum substrate only every 1-2 months to prevent disrupting the helpful bacteria colonies crucial for your system's natural biological filtration

 

[milesjames]

So to summarise:-
Clean your tank
Position plants to improve flow and remove nutrient catch points.
Reduce your light and stop natural light
Keep good plant health to take up nutrients to compete with bga
Don't use carpeting plants that catch waste
If you are going to trim all your plants reduce your ferts to stop there being excess.

Good luck with your tank I like to think my words are supportive and hold truth for people to improve thier tanks. If these last 2 posts have not shown that or explained enough I'm sorry I can't help more.

 

[seedoubleyou]

So to summarise:-
Clean your tank
Position plants to improve flow and remove nutrient catch points.
Reduce your light and stop natural light
Keep good plant health to take up nutrients to compete with bga
Don't use carpeting plants that catch waste
If you are going to trim all your plants reduce your ferts to stop there being excess.

Good luck with your tank I like to think my words are supportive and hold truth for people to improve thier tanks. If these last 2 posts have not shown that or explained enough I'm sorry I can't help more.

Nobody is disputing what you’re saying mate. My comment was merely suggesting that these aren’t necessarily causes, but more common characteristics of the environment.

You’re suggestions certainly are great advice for getting the balance back in a system that is lacking, but to say they’re the root cause in my eyes isn’t correct.

There are good examples of no filter, planted tanks that don’t suffer with Cyano. Why?

 

[milesjames]

Walsted setup tanks will get it but because the substrate setup is designed to generate CO2 through organic wastes the people accept this for a period of time. The substrate setup is designed to envelope the waste and lock it into the substrate to do this. These tanks have no ferts added, low lights with matching low demanding plants. As mentioned they do get bga but people who run them know that this is a temporary thing as the tank is setup for fast growing weeds to take up the nutrients from fish waste. The nitrogen is also removed from the tanks through floating plants and regular large water changes. So flow isn't wanted in this method.

I discounted the above as you clearly have a high energy tank so these methods are null and void.

Could you please specify what you think a cause is? Maybe I'm getting your question wrong.

If you are asking how it gets there it is your water, as much as we believe it doesn't tap water will bring in algea/bateria, as chlorine levels that are used are too low to kill all.

 

[seedoubleyou]

Walsted setup tanks will get it but because the substrate setup is designed to generate CO2 through organic wastes the people accept this for a period of time. The substrate setup is designed to envelope the waste and lock it into the substrate to do this. These tanks have no ferts added, low lights with matching low demanding plants. As mentioned they do get bga but people who run them know that this is a temporary thing as the tank is setup for fast growing weeds to take up the nutrients from fish waste. The nitrogen is also removed from the tanks through floating plants and regular large water changes. So flow isn't wanted in this method.

I discounted the above as you clearly have a high energy tank so these methods are null and void.

Could you please specify what you think a cause is? Maybe I'm getting your question wrong.

If you are asking how it gets there it is your water, as much as we believe it doesn't tap water will bring in algea/bateria, as chlorine levels that are used are too low to kill all.

Im not the OP mate.

It was just always my understanding that nobody actually knows what exactly causes Cyano bacteria. Yes there are certain conditions that Cyano Bacteria favour, but does this mean they’re a cause?

Does that make sense?

I’ve probably gone about my point completely wrong and inevitably confused everyone including myself on what I was trying to say.

As I’ve said, your advice is good and should be heeded by the OP to create an environment unfavourable to the Cyano. I was just maybe playing pedantic by saying they’re not specifically causes for Cyano but rather environmental factors inviting Cyano.

 

[milesjames]

Hhhmmm....
Not sure I get your point matey, but thinking we best leave it there.

Think the op gets how to fix it and we can leave it to the biologists to find out why bateria exists in our water ways/systems.