AQUARIUM WITH BUILT IN FILTRATION COMPARTMENT

[foxfish]

May not be a day .. might be a week might be a month but the simple and unavoidable physics dictate the inevitable .
Unless there is some factor we are not aware of ?

 

[Gill]

Play with that for a while and go from there to improve it.

If you are stuck on wanting both filter and tank always the same water level. Than you rather skip the sump idea go with Hamburg mattenfilter concept.

I have trialed all the above methods, andby far the winner is HMF. As there is no difference in the water levels, And it still allows you to create chambers for other media using a bit of egg crate etc.

 

[foxfish]

Perhaps your overflow has slots and is not actually an overflow?
Or perhaps it is well below the waterline and not actually working as an overflow?
You can’t deny the laws of physics of defy science so if your water levers are remaining the same there must be a reason.
Maybe some photos would help explain to us what is happening.

 

[Gill]

Perhaps your overflow has slots and is not actually an overflow?
Or perhaps it is well below the waterline and not actually working as an overflow?
You can’t deny the laws of physics of defy science so if your water levers are remaining the same there must be a reason.
Maybe some photos would help explain to us what is happening.

Apologies should have stated that I am using Matala Matting. It has a webbing, so allows water to pass right thru without restriction (but not fish). And has such a massive surface area for bacteria to grow upon.

https://www.swelluk.com/swell-japan...02nFd6egVPYo02wTxKfzeBwFbsqH03JwaAnhPEALw_wcB

 

[zozo]

If both tank and filter compartment stay the same water level i can think off only one reason. Both compartments are not properly sealed from each other and connected somewhere.

If both compartments are standalone and not connected, you pump water from one to the other, then the evaporation can only be noticed in the part that contains the pump. This will drain and finally run dry if evaporated water is not topped off again.

 

[Andrew Butler]

I'm unsure if we've been on the same page since day one @foxfish
The water intake slots are not intended for water to spill over (lower level in filtration compartment) but simply be drawn through then under and over the 2 sets of baffles to filter the water before returning it to the aquarium; is this what you thought I had?
I do agree that after an extended period that if water evaporates to below the bottom of the slots or the over baffles (Day 3 onwards in your drawings) then the system would require additional water but regardless the water is still evaporating throughout the whole system in my case. Maybe when I add another media it will cause things to slow down? - this would be down to restricted flow though surely? if the water is not getting to the pump fast enough it will just pump the section dry is what my head says.

If both tank and filter compartment stay the same water level i can think off only one reason. Both compartments are not properly sealed from each other and connected somewhere.

I will have to empty the system and try just filling up the filtration section to disprove this theory but I really don't think this is the case.
@Gill did you have problems with water only evaporating from the filtration section?

This is leaving me wondering what is going on with my system; after not understanding the theory of this put to me in the past I'm a little lost.

 

[foxfish]

Ha ha ... well In that case the filter is in fact joined to the tank until the water level dropped below the slots and in fact you do not actually have an overflow .
It looks like you can afford around 50mm drop in water level before the baffles start to actually overflow.

 

[Andrew Butler]

a ha ... well In that case the filter is in fact joined to the tank until the water level dropped below the slots and in fact you do not actually have an overflow .
It looks like you can afford around 50mm drop in water level before the baffles start to actually overflow.

So I've been confusing myself for months now, trying to get myself around something I already understood?
There are posts throughout the thread that show water level above the bottom of any weir comb or baffles.

If both tank and filter compartment stay the same water level i can think off only one reason. Both compartments are not properly sealed from each other and connected somewhere.

does this still stand in your eyes?

 

[foxfish]

There are two key words ... overflow and sump... neither of those apply as you dont have either in your system.
If the slots were not there then the thread would all make sense and in fact you would of had a sump and overflow!
Certainly a lot of misunderstanding....
So the only real issues you have now is ... not letting the water drop below the slots and the slots not getting clogged or blocked in anyway.
It might be an idea to lower the top of the area above the slotted transfer, so if the slots did get blocked (dead leaf, dead fish etc) the flow could go over that area. Otherwise the main tank could overflow on to your floor.

 

[Andrew Butler]

There are two key words ... overflow and sump... neither of those apply as you dont have either in your system

I'd tried to give the best descriptor I could which is where 'aquarium with filtration compartment' came into play.
How do you think this should be described?
The partition is a couple of mm lower than the sides of the aquarium which will account for everything aside from the slots allowing zero water through whatsoever which I think is quite unlikely.

 

[webworm]

Using the diagram from @Andrew Butler the pump chamber is 9l of water, you need to be able to hold this in the main tank in the event that the inlet blocks, which means that the water surface needs to be 2.1cm from the top of the tank to prevent water spilling out of the tank. That's assuming that the pump is able to completely empty the final chamber.
If you put the pump on a stand / egg crate half way up the chamber you can reduce the water surface to aquarium top distance to 1cm, and also have the benefit of improved flow as the pump has a reduced head compared to the bottom

 

[Andrew Butler]

@webworm remember there's the gap over the top of the partition where water does go in the event the inlet slots are 100% blocked which is quite unlikely I think as plants tend to let some water through; I experimented with a piece of plastic that stopped all flow through the comb. It was the disruption from the flow alone that allowed it to come over the edge in one place other than that the 2mm gap over the top was sufficient. I maybe should have the top finished 1-2mm lower than it is now but cutting the acrylic from above is a little risky I think.

 

[webworm]

The key thing here is that you've actually tested it too many people don't.

You might want to think about putting the return pump on a float switch, in the event that there's not enough water in the return section to prevent it getting burnt out.

 

[Andrew Butler]

The key thing here is that you've actually tested it too many people don't.

I knew it was going to be tight and reducing it further was an afterthought.

You might want to think about putting the return pump on a float switch, in the event that there's not enough water in the return section to prevent it getting burnt out.

It's got a run dry cut out built in so that's sorted.

I'm considering things that might stop the power to the pump should water get to a certain level etc, maybe overcomplicating things for the small risk factor.
Living a bit dangerously maybe?

 

[dean]

Why not keep it very simple
Silicone a piece of acrylic in it across the section of the tank
Drill it full of holes
Then simply put a big piece of filter sponge (50mm thick) up against it

You can put pumps in the chamber so they draw water through the songs

Put heaters in there too

Never going to run dry
Huge surface area
Very easy to keep clean

Keep even the smallest fish out of the chamber if you drill the holes small enough

The only pain is drilling all the holes
But it a one off thing




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zozo]

did you have problems with water only evaporating from the filtration section?

🙂 The water doesn't only evaporate from the filter section... It will evaporate from both sections. But, what evaporates from the tank, will be topped off again from the filter section.

See the system regardless the baffles as 2 separate buckets with water. Now you pump water from bucket 1 to bucket 2. Suppose you pump the exact amount of water that evaporates back into bucket 2. Obviously bucket 1 will be the only one lowering its water level because it isn't refilled. It's bucket 1 constantly refilling bucket 2. Thus if you do not manually refill bucket 1 it will finally run dry.

Anyway, i have a hunch that you have filled both tank and filter section to the exact same level.
It will stay this same level till the water in the tank and filter section gets to the overflow level. At that point you will notice the filter compartment lowering its level if you do not top it off again manually.

Where the red line will be the overflow level. Only if the red circle is completely sealed. If not the overflow level will be the green line.

 

[Gill]

Nope no problems as it has a hood on it now.

 

[foxfish]

Andrew, I think you will be fine with your set up, it is not a normal configuration but I see no reason why it will not work very well for you as long as you keep an eye on it.
Have you considered feeding the pump with C02?

 

[Andrew Butler]

Andrew, I think you will be fine with your set up, it is not a normal configuration but I see no reason why it will not work very well for you as long as you keep an eye on it.
Have you considered feeding the pump with C02?

Is it really that abnormal? I know it is a method used in other countries and even widespread with off the shelf products in the UK like the Fluval Flex.
It's just like going through the processes of what any filtration would do but just contained and hidden away within the main aquarium isn't it?
CO2 will be a bazooka diffuser placed underneath the pump intake and see how that works (not enough room to fit a funnel)

I guess time will tell how it works.

 

[Andrew Butler]

Had it running for a few days just to keep some plants alive for elsewhere and what's become obvious is my optimistic hopes for a surface skimming action isn't there.
I know the water runs right throughout the whole system at the same height but was hoping the draw of the 'under' action from the first baffle might be enough to draw the scum from the surface which it clearly isn't.
Thinking about ways I could make this possible using the system I have which leaves me with a few ideas (some/all a little crazy):
-run a small 'off the shelf' surface skimmer and direct the flow downwards within the first chamber
-block some of the height of the slots from behind so it skims the very top of the waters surface
-add some kind of additional weir box inside the first chamber that allows the full amount of slots to be used if needed but brings the overflow upto a height that will skim the water surface
-Some kind of revolutionary self adjusting surface skimmer design that sits within the first chamber and adjusts to the water level.
-block some of the the width of the first chamber to concentrate the draw and maybe skim the surface at the same time.

I can see potential flaws with all of the ideas, maybe someone might have something to put forward?