Alternanthera Reineckii struggling or just settling in?

[_Maq_]

So I don't think mentioning the need for proteins is "off-mark", whatever that means.

Quotation from your quotations: "Their diet consists of both proteins and vegetable matter". THAT is off-mark. Vegetable matter contains proteins just like animal matter.
They do not eat other food than algae and plants because they need proteins, because algae and plants do contain proteins. They are simply omnivores, and mentioning proteins is off-mark.

 

[Hanuman]

• Heavy vacuum of substrate

I suggest you go easy on this. It's best IME to do light vacuums every week on different parts of the tanks unless you are removing all plants and replanting afterwards.

Then I'll leave it a week with the current fertiliser dosing regimen and photoperiod to see what comes of it.

You will need more than a week to properly assess this. You can obviously see new growth in a week time if what you had was an NPK deficiency but it would takes a few more weeks to assess that the growth is healthy and consistent.

I'm tempted by that as well but don't want ot mess with too many variables at once.

I agree. Don't make too many changes at once. This said if you decide to reduce photoperiod, do it progressively.

 

[LightingBamboozled]

I suggest you go easy on this. It's best IME to do light vacuums every week on different parts of the tanks unless you are removing all plants and replanting afterwards.

That's my normal routine but the volume of debris is getting silly and I don't want the population of MTS to explode and then have a die off once the plants stop melting. Needs must this week.

You will need more than a week to properly assess this. You can obviously see new growth in a week time if what you had was an NPK deficiency but it would takes a few more weeks to assess that the growth is healthy and consistent

I'm not changing the NPK this week and only dose micros. So a week will be enough to give me more information on a next diagnostic step. But as far as NPK goes, Nitrates are still rising, Phosphate appears to be high (still slightly doubting the test kit) and none of the symptoms resemble low K as far as I can see.

 

[LightingBamboozled]

So another week and I got less maintenance done last weekend than intended. The diffuser was dirtier than I expected, but the fresh diffuser isn't allowing significantly more CO2. I tested across the day to see the pH profile in case It was a bit weird.
pH 7 at CO2 on, pH 6.6 (leaning 6.4) at lights on. pH still 6.6 (still on the 6.4 side but less so) at mid photoperiod. pH 6.6 (bang on) at CO2 off. pH 6.8 at lights out. kH is 3 so I think I'm getting my CO2 to around 28 at lights on dropping to 22 over the day.
As I was testing I figured I'd check everything Ammonia and Nitrite 0. Nitrate rising across the week from 10 to 15/20 ish (I think I need to start dosing this as feedings not raising it as much as it used to). kH3, gH 9. Phosphate (which I'm still not confident I trust) is 5-10 hard to tell which.
Dwarf Sag is doing better, Limnophila is greener with more symmetric growth. Less green spot on leaves. Theres a small transplanted offcut of AR that looks like it's doing well but not seeing a lot of improvement on larger stems, some new growth that doesn't look terrible. Floaters still growing at a rate of knots. Carpet no real change.
New problem I'm facing is I'm going away for a little while and the tank's likey to go 4 or 5 days with no feeding or fertilisers which isn't going to help stability...but nothing I can do there at the moment.

 

[palcente]

I seldom observe nitrogen deficiency

Here are some examples of nitrogen depletion by hygro polyspherma, which is excellent at reacting to it... bonus pictures of bacopa and pogostemon helferi...

Notice how old growth is being absorbed to fuel the new growth. Not every plant reacts this way, for example heteranthera zosterifolia just grows very pale, I took a photo, but it does not for some reason capture the "paleness" which is very obvious in person.
Some plants stunt, but that is not a reliable indicator - well I guess it is, but by the time you see it, it's too late to remediate. Nitrogen deficiency is the top deficiency for me in co2 injected tank, I dose around 12-13ppm of N per week - I find your comment very strange - how much nitrogen do you put in your tanks?









Matt

 

[_Maq_]

Here are some examples of nitrogen depletion by hygro polyspherma, which is excellent at reacting to it...

Yes, this truly looks like N deficiency.

bonus pictures of bacopa

Hardly discernible chlorosis. (When I try opening/magnifying you pics in Imgur, I get only gray background.)

and pogostemon helferi...

Possibly, but I think it may be signs of other nutrient deficiency, too, like Fe, Mn, Mg?

Notice how old growth is being absorbed to fuel the new growth. Not every plant reacts this way, for example heteranthera zosterifolia just grows very pale

Did you make some arranged N deficit to document it? Otherwise I'd not see N deficiency in this case...

Nitrogen deficiency is the top deficiency for me in co2 injected tank, I dose around 12-13ppm of N per week - I find your comment very strange - how much nitrogen do you put in your tanks?

Firstly, I'm running low-tech. Normally, I dose 0.78 mg N/L (eq. to 3.5 mg NO3/L) in 12-day intervals after water change (front-load). However, I change only 30 (45) liters out of 70, and dose only 30 (45) / 70 of that. So, actual content of nitrogen is probably less than half of that. Indeed, my plants grow slowly, esp. during winter when temperature falls to 17-19 °C.

 

[palcente]

Yes, this truly looks like N deficiency.

Hardly discernible chlorosis. (When I try opening/magnifying you pics in Imgur, I get only gray background.)

Possibly, but I think it may be signs of other nutrient deficiency, too, like Fe, Mn, Mg?

Did you make some arranged N deficit to document it? Otherwise I'd not see N deficiency in this case...

Firstly, I'm running low-tech. Normally, I dose 0.78 mg N/L (eq. to 3.5 mg NO3/L) in 12-day intervals after water change (front-load). However, I change only 30 (45) liters out of 70, and dose only 30 (45) / 70 of that. So, actual content of nitrogen is probably less than half of that. Indeed, my plants grow slowly, esp. during winter when temperature falls to 17-19 °C.

It's all nitrogen caused, polyspgerma was fine a day before. Nothing to do with Mg, Fe, Mn. There's other plants in the tank that would show those deficiencies earlier. I anticipated this, that's how I know. I only front loaded half of my usual N dose with NO3 as I try to shift to urea, but I do not have the bacteria in my filter to process it fast enough yet.

Yes, low tech is very different, like formula 1 and horse racing. Cannot really compare our doses. There is a chance your plants would be fine while in the same conditions mine would start to deteriorate as above.

Best,
Matt

 

[palcente]

Hardly discernible chlorosis.

 

[_Maq_]

Yes, low tech is very different, like formula 1 and horse racing. Cannot really compare our doses. There is a chance your plants would be fine while in the same conditions mine would start to deteriorate as above.

I can't really judge hi-tech experience. Yet I know from scientific papers that the relative (%) N content of extra CO2 supported plants is lower than without CO2 injection. Plants create more saccharides but the creation of N containing compounds (proteins) is not increased, or increased in relatively lower degree.
I've got a theory of a hierarchy of nutrients. Is excess of Mg able to induce N deficiency? I think not. N stands higher in the hierarchy of nutrients. I speculate (without any proof, admittedly) that only excess of P can induce N deficiency. In other circumstances, plants just grow slowly.
In my theory, N and P stand at the top and control demand for other nutrients. If N and P are in balanced supply (roughly 16:1), neither P nor N deficiency defects appear.
So, I believe that my relatively low doses of N (and P) don't cause deficiency of any of them, and I assume that also you, albeit in hi-tech conditions, can induce N deficiency only when P is in excess relative to N. So, how do you dose phosphorus?

 

[palcente]

I can't really judge hi-tech experience. Yet I know from scientific papers that the relative (%) N content of extra CO2 supported plants is lower than without CO2 injection. Plants create more saccharides but the creation of N containing compounds (proteins) is not increased, or increased in relatively lower degree.
I've got a theory of a hierarchy of nutrients. Is excess of Mg able to induce N deficiency? I think not. N stands higher in the hierarchy of nutrients. I speculate (without any proof, admittedly) that only excess of P can induce N deficiency. In other circumstances, plants just grow slowly.
In my theory, N and P stand at the top and control demand for other nutrients. If N and P are in balanced supply (roughly 16:1), neither P nor N deficiency defects appear.
So, I believe that my relatively low doses of N (and P) don't cause deficiency of any of them, and I assume that also you, albeit in hi-tech conditions, can induce N deficiency only when P is in excess relative to N. So, how do you dose phosphorus?

16:1

 

[LightingBamboozled]

Well the Alternathera has stabilised, it's not the healthiest growth but it isn't melting.
The little side shoot I transplanted is probably the healthiest piece. Although It's getting slightly smothered by the vigorous regrowth of the Dwarf Sag that I thought had died out.



One of the stems is hitting the surface, I'm considering encouragin it to the calm area where the floating plants are, does anyone know what AR grows like when the top leaves have access to atmosphere?




Hygrophyla isn't doing well, it's getting crowded out



Am getting a better camera delivered today which I'm looking forward to and should allow some better images of the various plants but overall the growth in the tank is at a level I'm pretty happy with all over. (Even if the Java Fern on the log at the right refuses to stay properly attached)

 

[John q]

Tanks looking better.

does anyone know what AR grows like when the top leaves have access to atmosphere?

No personal experience but would imagine if you let the plant breach the surface it will focus all its energy on emersed growth and sacrifice its leaves below the water. Basically these leaves are no longer required.