Algae affecting plants

[REDSTEVEO]

Hi Kelly!

As I read through the thread, I started to think that if we change our goals it may align with everything you want: long lighting period (I deduced this), low maintenance. I am thinking we go low tech?

I have a tank upstairs that is right beside a window. I use no light (only take advantage of sunlight) and have several floating plants, in particular duckweed, to help with nutrient uptake. It has no plants (but I have ran low tech in the past) as my wife wanted the plastic ones with blue rocks 🤣.

Diana Walstad's < Ecology of the planted tank > could be an approach that you take.

The issue I think is that the strategy that people take to achieve 'show' tanks is:
1) expensive (there is no denying that the upfront cost of CO2 etc is not cheap - even with DIY everything).
2) requires meticulous cleaning, especially on start up - which means changing water.
3) requires CO2 injection.

Dennis Wong achieves a < nice low tech tank > but I bet he doesn't fertilize the water column and has nutrient rich and appropriate substrate.

In every case, it requires a restart - as the low-tech approach with minimal water changes will need a substrate to keep it balanced.

Except the case below:

Or, you find a way to lean out you fertilization to match the 3ppm of CO2 that you have. This will require intensive water changing and cleaning up front - so you will have to remove most of the waste from your tank, clean it intensely, remove dying plants, remove algae, rub all of the leaves, clean your filter, THEN dose minimal amounts. This will work by forcing a different nutrient (not CO2) to stop the assembly line of Liebig's law of the minimum - without running it out of course so riding a nice line - (the easiest one to use here is phosphate as it is more mobile within the plant vs. the water column, so the plant can stock up on phosphates from the WC while algae ... at least this is what I have gathered from reading - no formal link here). The goal becomes SLOW, healthy growth. You shouldn't have to trim for months.

These are simply my thoughts 🙂.

Josh

Excellent advice for everyone, and probably the best route for @kellyboy47 to go down.

 

[kellyboy47]

3 and a bit weeks in and I have made some changes. I've been doing a 33% water change over past 3 weeks....I stopped the nutrients as suggested for about the same amount of time and have reduced the lighting period to 5 hours but I have now restarted the macro / micro ferts. I have trimmed the plants that had the worst algae but unfortunately the algae isnt getting markedly better and I have a lot of green algae on the substrate although I have 'hoovered' the gravel twice in the past 2 weeks. I have introduced some frogbit although think I need to buy some more.
Did a water test today and the readings were NO2 =0, NO3=100, CL2=0.8, KH 6d, GH 8d and PH 7.2 so I assume this has improved.
Do you think I am going the right way and should I replace the substrate in your opinion ? Any other recommendations would be gratefully received

Thanks
Trev

 

[hypnogogia]

Your chlorine is high. Do you use a water conditioner such as Prime when you do your water changes? Also, your frog it should increase by itself, so you shouldn’t need to buy any more. It it doesn’t increase, your doing something wrong - insufficient light or lack of nutrients.

 

[kellyboy47]

Yes always have used Tetra Aquasafe at water change. I have taken advice from what other members have said on here and have a 5 hour lighting period as has been suggested as I was apparently using too much light. I have resumed adding same levels of Micro / Macro ferts

 

[PARAGUAY]

Well worth a look on George Farmers YT channel George visits to Scaped Nature to see the low tech shop tank and Ray's low tech sets ups at home

 

[kellyboy47]

Your chlorine is high

Yes I have only been adding the dosage for the amount of water I change i.e 30ml for 60 litres of water when apparently I should be adding 90ml for a 180l tank 😱 so I will be making changes here 🙂

 

[nigel bentley]

3 and a bit weeks in and I have made some changes. I've been doing a 33% water change over past 3 weeks....I stopped the nutrients as suggested for about the same amount of time and have reduced the lighting period to 5 hours but I have now restarted the macro / micro ferts. I have trimmed the plants that had the worst algae but unfortunately the algae isnt getting markedly better and I have a lot of green algae on the substrate although I have 'hoovered' the gravel twice in the past 2 weeks. I have introduced some frogbit although think I need to buy some more.
Did a water test today and the readings were NO2 =0, NO3=100, CL2=0.8, KH 6d, GH 8d and PH 7.2 so I assume this has improved.
Do you think I am going the right way and should I replace the substrate in your opinion ? Any other recommendations would be gratefully received

Thanks
Trev

Hi Kelly boy, Nitrate still pretty high but better. I too have had similar problems with the BBA, although my lighting period is much shorter than yours. I dose EI but due to having fish and quite a lot of nitrate in my tap water, I have started reducing potassium nitrate I add to macro solution. I'm reducing from 4 to 3 tsp. Maybe worth a go mate along with big water changes on every 7 th day. Good luck and don't give up 🤞

 

[Melll]

How is the tank coming on now?

 

[kellyboy47]

Hi Kelly boy, Nitrate still pretty high but better. I too have had similar problems with the BBA, although my lighting period is much shorter than yours. I dose EI but due to having fish and quite a lot of nitrate in my tap water, I have started reducing potassium nitrate I add to macro solution. I'm reducing from 4 to 3 tsp. Maybe worth a go mate along with big water changes on every 7 th day. Good luck and don't give up 🤞

Did a water test yesterday after a water change and the readings were NO2 =0, NO3=100, CL2=0, KH 6d, GH 8d and PH 7.2 so not getting any worse but only slightly better with the CL2. We live in a 'Hard water' area so that probably doesnt help. I have reduced from 4 to 3tsp as you have and am still doing 33% water change every week but might have to alter the lighting period to a 3 and a 2 hour period instead of 5 in all one go

 

[kellyboy47]

How is the tank coming on now?

Not got any worse but havnt seen an improvement as yet only in the CL2. Been trying to rub the algae off the plants as they look awful. Water change 33% every week

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

but might have to alter the lighting period to a 3 and a 2 hour period instead of 5 in all one go

I wouldn't go any shorter than five hours in the main block. You need to make sure that your plants <"have sufficient light"> (above light compensation point (LCP)). I've never kept a high tech. tank and I understand about carbon limitation, but I don't understand how 19 hours below LCP can improve plant growth.

Low tech I have all my tanks on an "~12 hour day", the ones at home have a couple of hours off around midday so that I can see them both morning and evening in the winter.

cheers Darrel

 

[kellyboy47]

Update on recent issue. Please see photos on sorry state of plants 🙁

Currently doing a larger water change 33%.
Have changed all filter media in internal Juwel filter with new
Lighting period 5 hours in one block - 100% Blue 100% White on Juwel Helialux lighting
EI dosing back to normal quantities
Current readings after water change today:
NO3= 25
NO2 =0
GH= 16d
KH=15d
PH=7.6
CL2=0

I was going to buy some substrate like ECO Complete or Tropica and top with sand or gravel but in hindsight I think I am losing the
battle with my tank conditions so what I propose to do is cut my losses on the following:

Remove all substrate and discard plants
Thoroughly clean tank
Replace plants with hardy species such as Anubias, Buce, Java on wood / rock instead of stem plants with which I have had no luck whatsoever !
Have smaller grain gravel / sand as I am keen on adding more Corydoras.

In respect of the gravel which make would anybody suggest and what grain size or indeed as another option just have a pure a sand base or is that not advisable 😕

Any help gratefully received 😉

 

[kellyboy47]

I have recently drained down my tank (3 weeks ago), cleaned everything thoroughly, removed the gravel and discarded the plants.

I have now tried to rescape my tank and have added Tropica Aquarium soil, Dragon stone, purchased new plants and have cut down the nutrients / easycarbo I was using by 50%. The lighting period is set to 6 hours and all was fine for a week and a bit and now I have brown algae affecting both the hardscape and the plants and I am wondering whether this is normal.

I googled for resolutions and it suggested I was either not getting enough or conversely too much light or because I have started anew this is signs of the tank cycling ? I have spent a lot of money to try and get my tank looking reasonable but I'm concerned I am heading in the same direction as before

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Brown algae, or diatoms, is perfectly normal. Mileage varies on how long it sticks around though. Since you have some larger livestock I’d go with snails to help with it’s eradication as shrimp or Otos would be decimated by your cichlids. It’s one of the most frustrating times with a new tank, but it’s not the end and merely the beginning. When you do your water changes, wipe down the glass and all decorations as best you can so that the diatoms/algae is free floating. During this time it’s beneficial to do changes at least once, but preferably twice a week at 50% or more.

as has already been noted, you have very limited plant stocking so algae already has a leg up if you provide too much light. If you can dim your light I would, 50% for a few weeks until you notice good growth in your plants. But I’d recommend you add more plants as well.

 

[dcurzon]

I have the same essex hard water. Using Tropica aquarium soil powder and EI dosing, I have plenty of growth going on (also co2). I'm running 8 hours/day light and EI dosing, but have more plant mass. Try some fast growing plants. In my Essex water, the plants that I can literally see growth on a daily basis are Egeria Densa, Tiger Lotus, Vallisneria Spiralis

 

[kellyboy47]

Brown algae, or diatoms, is perfectly normal. Mileage varies on how long it sticks around though. Since you have some larger livestock I’d go with snails to help with it’s eradication as shrimp or Otos would be decimated by your cichlids. It’s one of the most frustrating times with a new tank, but it’s not the end and merely the beginning. When you do your water changes, wipe down the glass and all decorations as best you can so that the diatoms/algae is free floating. During this time it’s beneficial to do changes at least once, but preferably twice a week at 50% or more.

as has already been noted, you have very limited plant stocking so algae already has a leg up if you provide too much light. If you can dim your light I would, 50% for a few weeks until you notice good growth in your plants. But I’d recommend you add more plants as well.

Thanks for your reply. I do intend to buy more plants but only bought a few to see how they went. The Hottonia is growing quite well but strange thing is the top growth is free from the brown algae but the bottom growth isn't . I have reduced the light intensity to 50% and will see how I get on. The brown algae wiped off very easily from the Echinodorus which was a bonus as the algae problem I had before was horrendous ! So what type of snail would you recommend ?

 

[kellyboy47]

I have the same essex hard water. Using Tropica aquarium soil powder and EI dosing, I have plenty of growth going on (also co2). I'm running 8 hours/day light and EI dosing, but have more plant mass. Try some fast growing plants. In my Essex water, the plants that I can literally see growth on a daily basis are Egeria Densa, Tiger Lotus, Vallisneria Spiralis

Are you using injected CO2 or liquid carbon. The previous poster recommended dimming my lights to 50% which I have just done. Have you got the same lights as me ?

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

So what type of snail would you recommend ?

I have nerite snails, olive to be more specific. They tend to be less expensive but aren’t as “pretty” as the tiger or other fancy varieties. But they are workhorses for diatom and green algae. Other people also go for ramshorn snails too. The nerites won’t breed so you won’t have an outbreak of snails but they do lay white eggs that are hard to rub off but I barely notice them. I have a 40 gallon tank with about 30 of them in there.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

The Hottonia is growing quite well but strange thing is the top growth is free from the brown algae but the bottom growth isn't .

Algae cannot compete with a healthy growing plant, so that’s why you won’t see new growth covered in it. When a plant’s growth goes stagnant, then algae takes over. So that’s a good sign that your tops are clear. If the bottom continues to look crummy, cut off the healthy portion and replant it if you have enough stem, 4” or more.

 

[dcurzon]

Are you using injected CO2 or liquid carbon. The previous poster recommended dimming my lights to 50% which I have just done. Have you got the same lights as me ?

I don't know what lights you have, but probably not.
1x Juwel 125 with the standard t5's, bulbs are at least 10 years old, sand substrate, 8 hours light 12-8pm.
1x Juwel 72 with generic Chinese led light bar, approx 18w. Tropica soil powder. 8 hours light 12-8pm, back light used for ramp up/down.
Injected co2 (was using diy co2 for a short while) on both.