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60P IWAGUMI Mountain Scape

Hi all,
I just don't think they are suitable for the tank really. I haven't kept them, but I would think that putting them in an iwagumi would be extremely stressful for them, and that they are unlikely to show their natural colours or behaviour.

Trochilocharax ornatus <http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/search/Trochilocharax+ornatus> is a black water fish (like Tucanoichthys tucano < Tucanoichthys tucano — Seriously Fish>) and should really go in tannin stained, very soft water with leaf litter and subdued light.

If you did want to keep them in a planted tank with clearer water, the conditions that suit Poecilocharax etc <Joe's tank | UK Aquatic Plant Society> should do for them as well.

cheers Darrel

You could argue that a lot of species aren't ideally suited to many of the setups and layouts that people use them in. The ideal setup for a black neon tetra (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi) is a biotope, but a huge number of them live happily in minimal high tech planted tanks. If our hobby consisted of just replicating the exact conditions that these fish live in in the wild, I think we would be rather limiting ourselves. Especially seeing as a lot of the smaller species (Ones more suited to smaller tanks or Iwugami style layouts) come from low light, blackwater or biotope environments. When I last saw Crystal rainbow tetra in my LFS, they were in an minimal, open water, high tech layout and they appeared to be perfectly happy and incredibly vibrant in colour. They were in that tank for a good 3 months+ (due to the high price). I think that you would undoubtedly notice if they weren't happy after that period of time. The species will behave differently in each tank they are used in, If you were breeding them then of course they would need to be in more of a backwater setup. However, I don't intend to breed them at the moment. I am also using green neon tetra as my main fish in this tank, technically they are also blackwater fish.
 
Hi all,

I'll "nail my colours to the post" straight away, and say that
  1. I won't use CO2 whilst it has the chance of asphyxiating your fish.
  2. I only keep heavily planted tanks.
  3. I've killed a large number of fish since the 1970's by ill treating them in various ways, in my defence mainly via ignorance.
It is your choice and I know that a lot of people will disagree me, but
You could argue that a lot of species aren't ideally suited to many of the setups and layouts that people use them in.
I would, personally I try to only keep fish in conditions that I think they will be happy enough to live out their natural lives, and hopefully reproduce.
The ideal setup for a black neon tetra (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi) is a biotope, but a huge number of them live happily in minimal high tech planted tanks.
I've kept Black Neons for a number of generations in a heavily planted tank, and they aren't naturally a shoaling fish at all, and show a whole range of interesting interactions in a weedy environment.
If our hobby consisted of just replicating the exact conditions that these fish live in in the wild, I think we would be rather limiting ourselves. Especially seeing as a lot of the smaller species (Ones more suited to smaller tanks or Iwugami style layouts) come from low light, blackwater or biotope environments.
I can't think of any small fish fish that are really suited to a really bare Iwagumi lay-out.
When I last saw Crystal rainbow tetra in my LFS, they were in an minimal, open water, high tech layout and they appeared to be perfectly happy and incredibly vibrant in colour. They were in that tank for a good 3 months+ (due to the high price). I think that you would undoubtedly notice if they weren't happy after that period of time. The species will behave differently in each tank they are used in, If you were breeding them then of course they would need to be in more of a backwater setup. However, I don't intend to breed them at the moment. I am also using green neon tetra as my main fish in this tank, technically they are also blackwater fish.
I wouldn't keep a rare fish, or any wild collected fish, if I didn't have some hope of breeding them. Unsurprisingly I don't think Green Neon Tetra are suitable either for an Iwagumi.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi Darrel,
Whilst I appreciate that these situations may not be the "perfect" conditions for a particular type of fish, there is obviously a much wider degree of conditions that the fish are quite happily able to live with. Obviously in an ideal world there would be no CO2 in the water, plenty of dark/shaded areas for fish to hide in to minimise stress, and no nitrates or any other chemicals in the water. However I'm sure that professional aquascape/fish retailers (such as the green machine) are more than aware of the "high tech" setups which these fish are placed into. It's probably a good indicator when these shops are using these sorts of fish in their display tanks which nearly always are place into high tech setups. Knowing emyr I'm sure that he has quizzed the staff at these shops thoroughly to make sure that these fish will be healthy and happy in his set up.
As it is much the case in this hobby, there are many different approaches that can be taken, and could it be a possibility that because of your bad luck with keeping some fish alive that you've accredited primarily to the very fundamental parts which allow aquascaping to function in the way that we know it today?

Food for thought...
 
Hi Darrel,
Whilst I appreciate that these situations may not be the "perfect" conditions for a particular type of fish, there is obviously a much wider degree of conditions that the fish are quite happily able to live with. Obviously in an ideal world there would be no CO2 in the water, plenty of dark/shaded areas for fish to hide in to minimise stress, and no nitrates or any other chemicals in the water. However I'm sure that professional aquascape/fish retailers (such as the green machine) are more than aware of the "high tech" setups which these fish are placed into. It's probably a good indicator when these shops are using these sorts of fish in their display tanks which nearly always are place into high tech setups. Knowing emyr I'm sure that he has quizzed the staff at these shops thoroughly to make sure that these fish will be healthy and happy in his set up.
As it is much the case in this hobby, there are many different approaches that can be taken, and could it be a possibility that because of your bad luck with keeping some fish alive that you've accredited primarily to the very fundamental parts which allow aquascaping to function in the way that we know it today?

Food for thought...
 
You can't replicate 'perfect' conditions for any fish unless you own a river in a warm country - in which case who needs a tank?

Fish learn there are no predators or danger fairly quickly as can be seen by the fact that they come to the surface right where we stand (loom menacingly) for feeding. Keep quiet equilibrium in their lives and provide them with some elements of their natural home and they 'should' be fine. They must have coping mechanisms as I understand many fish live longer in tanks than in their natural environment. When some plonker bangs the glass they freak - a natural reaction to having their quiet little world disturbed. They soon go back relaxed playfulness when they see me clouting said plonker round the ear to explain how the fish feel! There wouldn't be so many varieties/adaptations of fish if they didn't adapt to the varied situations in which they live in the wild.

That being said I try to provide shade and planted cover for them.

To each his own
 
Hi all,
To each his own
Agreed, and I realise that we are all going to differ in our motivation and intentions, but we all have a duty of care to the animals we look after.

I'd actually make a particular distinction for "blackwater" fish, they really are different from fish from less extreme water conditions.

cheers Darrel
 
we all have a duty of care to the animals we look after.

Absolutely! May I add that all of the points made were taken into consideration, researched and discussed long before they were mentioned on this blog. Thanks for the input anyway though people.

Here is a quick video I took the other day of some Green Neons in a 30L at the Aquatic Design Centre, these are the fish I'm going to get in within the next month or so. Hopefully they will compliment the scape well, while also being happy in their environment. ;);)



Here's a tank update, 2 weeks since planting...

j4ml.jpg


The HC carpet is starting to fill in nicely. I'v been running just a 6 hour photoperiod for the first two weeks, dosing 3ml of easycarbo daily and 3ml of Tropica macro and micro ferts on alternate days. I have now upped the photoperiod to 7 hours a day. No livestock added yet and more importantly, no algae! (touch wood)

nwtb.jpg


Moody, low exposure, 'twilight' shot.

pz7l.jpg


Another shot of the HC starting to carpet, sending out runners. Growth should now be increased with the extra hour of light.

I will be adding some Eleocharis Parvula around the rocks within the next few days, to soften them a little.
 
A long overdue update!

Below is the tank just before Christmas. All growing very nicely. 6 hour photoperiod. Hairgrass added between the rocks.

vrqu.jpg


o1vl.jpg


c7w1.jpg


Here is a photo I took yesterday. Full carpet. I have had a tiny outbreak of cyanobacteria (BGA) in two places, which I have cut out and upped my dosing regime slightly. Other than that it is running very smoothly. The only livestock in there at the moment are 6 Otto's. I will be adding a shoal of green neons this evening.

822n.jpg


v27j.jpg


Black Otto

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Thanks.
 
Looks fantastic. Top job mate. I hope the fish enjoy the new home :)

Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk
 
Looks lovely and has filled in a treat :thumbup:
Must be nice to wake up to a nice mountain view every morning....priceless :)
Cheerio,
 
Very handsome! Be sure to post some pics of the green neons.....they should look fab with this mountainous scape!!
 
Nice one! Really like the feel of it. It's appeasing yet strong... Dunno if I'm clear... :)
 
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