31ppm of K and Getting Pinholes

[Unexpected]

I can obviously rule out K as the issue and I'm wondering; are there micro nutrient deficiencies that would cause pinholes? I played around with lower CSMB dosing and I'm thinking I reached the lower end of too little. I went down to .3Fe as proxy and have since gone back to .4Fe. I use an inert substrate FYI.

Any insight is appreciated,
Miller

 

[Zeus.]

Most common cause of pin holes is carbon definecy, as a result of a combination/mix of too intense light, lack of CO2 and/or insufficient flow.
Or is something eating them?

 

[Unexpected]

Most common cause of pin holes is carbon definecy, as a result of a combination/mix of too intense light, lack of CO2 and/or insufficient flow.
Or is something eating them?

I do have some pond snails, but not at epidemic levels. I have 3 Clown Plecos and a SAE. The holes are small enough that I think I could rule out the SAE and Clown Plecos. These holes are only showing on 2 species of plants.

Oh, and some Red Cherries. These are pretty recently transplanted from a different tank with new parameters. Could this be plant adjusting and the snails capitalizing?

 

[Hufsa]

You dont have any other livestock?

 

[Witcher]

I went down to .3Fe as proxy and have since gone back to .4Fe

at what water hardness and ph? Fe is a tricky subject especially in hard water - if you have hard-ish water, Fe may go mostly down the drain.
Overall I think the more soft/acidic water you have, the more nutrients are being available for plants (without going too much into the details).

 

[Unexpected]

4.2dGH, recently moved to 5.2dGH and 1dKH and only dose Micros when pH reaches 5.7.

 

[Unexpected]

You dont have any other livestock?

Brilliant Rasbora, Harlequin Rasbora, Ember tetra and Dwarf Neon Rainbows.

 

[MichaelJ]

Could this be plant adjusting

Certainly. Plants moved between waters with different water parameters (or even moved around within the same tank) can suffer a setback. Is this the only plant developing pinholes? if so, this might be a good indication that the plant is adjusting?

And of course, this could be caused by predation as well - a bit hard to say from the picture at my vantage point. The holes would often look more ragged if its predation.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Unexpected]

Certainly. Plants moved between waters with different water parameters (or even moved around within the same tank) can suffer a setback. Is this the only plant developing pinholes? if so, this might be a good indication that the plant is adjusting?

And of course, this could be caused by predation as well - a bit hard to say from the picture at my vantage point. The holes would often look more ragged if its predation.

Cheers,
Michael

This one and one other. Everything else looks fine. I'm going to increase my waffer feeding a bit, double check CO2 and see what the next few weeks bring.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Or is something eating them?

That would be my guess as well.

cheers Darrel

 

[Hufsa]

Or is something eating them?

That would be my guess as well.

It was my first thought as well based on how the holes are looking on the picture. They look a lot like loach damage usually looks. But no loaches in the tank 🤔
But the holes in the lower more tucked away leaves give me pause.

@Unexpected can you tell if the holes have yellow edges to them, or mostly not?
A second picture would be great.
This is not about potassium for sure. The holes = potassium thing is very common suspicion but I dont think potassium is responsible for nearly as much of it as we could initially suspect.

 

[_Maq_]

The holes = potassium thing is very common suspicion but I dont think potassium is responsible for nearly as much of it as we could initially suspect.

I'm a literature man...
In literature, I've never found pinholes among signs of potassium deficiency. Magnesium or manganese could possibly look a bit like that, in selected species.
But if the damage is restricted to a single species, a soft one at that, I'd rather suspect some herbivores.

 

[Unexpected]

can you tell if the holes have yellow edges

There are no yellow edges and I'll get better pictures shortly. The light is off and will be on in a couple of hours.

But if the damage is restricted to a single species, a soft one at that, I'd rather suspect some herbivores

This one and the Serphyllum are the only plants showing the holes.

 

[Unexpected]

Any better?

 

[hypnogogia]

They look a lot like loach damage usually looks.

Do clown loaches cause that sort of damage?

 

[Gorillastomp]

Pinholes done by defeciency are way smaller than this and usually the edge of that hole is yellowish. Plus the edges are more uniforms

Yours seems like something is bitting it.

 

[Unexpected]

Pinholes done by defeciency are way smaller than this and usually the edge of that hole is yellowish. Plus the edges are more uniforms

Yours seems like something is bitting it.

I can live with that. I'll try increasing some Algae wafers and see if I can reduce the plant chomping.

 

[xZaiox]

This is not about potassium for sure. The holes = potassium thing is very common suspicion but I dont think potassium is responsible for nearly as much of it as we could initially suspect.

I agree. I used to get pinholes on my hygrophila compacta when dosing 30ppm of K. I've dosed as low as 5ppm and they no longer have these pinholes. My best guess is that in my case, it was something to do with micro elements, but I'm unsure what. It was absolutely NOT CO2 though - I made no changes to CO2 at all. That's not to say CO2 can't be a cause, just that it wasn't the cause in my case.

In literature, I've never found pinholes among signs of potassium deficiency. Magnesium or manganese could possibly look a bit like that, in selected species.

Darrel ( @dw1305 ) has posted pictures before of 'snake bite lesions' in duckweed literature, which appear to be holes induced from iron deficiency - another possible cause?

 

[_Maq_]

holes induced from iron deficiency - another possible cause?

Of that I know nothing. But if Darrel documented it, I'll believe that.
You know, deficiency symptoms may vary among families, genuses, even species. Unfortunately, most descriptions are concerned with plants important in agriculture or trees used in forestry or ornamental gardening. Someone should map nutrient deficiencies effects on aquarium plants. I wonder who might be that 'someone'?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Any better?

Yes, they look much more like the leaf tissue is "melting".

Darrel ( @dw1305 ) has posted pictures before of 'snake bite lesions' in duckweed literature, which appear to be holes induced from iron deficiency

It is this thread <"Micronutrient toxicity.. or deficiency.. ? Pls help.">. I also think the same thing causes the reticulated pattern of decay in unhealthy Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) leaves <"Frogbit taken a turn">.

cheers Darrel