Search results for query: Liebig's law of the minimum

Rotala and Frogbit look a tad peely wally......as they say in Scotland.😁

Hi all, One of the issues with nutrient deficiencies is that if you "cure" one, another is likely to appear via <"Liebig's Law of the minimum">. Lack of nitrogen (N) shows in reduced growth with leaves that are small, as well as pale. Have a look at <"The scientific background to the "Leaf...

Hi all, It could be any of the <"mobile essential plant nutrients">, but nitrogen is usually where I start - <"The scientific background to the "Leaf Colour Chart"">. cheers Darrel

...Have a look at <"We've talked about iron deficiency, but what are going to do about it?"> Plant growth is like a <"car assembly line">, you need all the <"fourteen essential plant nutrients"> available <"Liebig's law of the minimum - Wikipedia">, or you don't get any growth. cheers Darrel

Ever since I was told that if I don't give fertilizers and other nutrients, the plants won't be able to consume nitrate and CO2, I've been continuously dosing my tank with it, minimum twice a week, sometimes thrice. I created this thread not stop that, But I wanted more knowledge on it.

Hi all, I'd guess that the actual situation is closer to MLH, but in some ways it is just a more nuanced take on Liebig's Law of the Minimum. It is all back to the assembly line aspect of plant growth, you need all the components (nutrients) or you don't get a car (plant growth). Cheers Darrel

Hi all, Yes, that is looking good. <"I do">, they have a multitude of advantages - <"What is the “Duckweed Index” all about?">. <"One advantage of a floating plant"> would be that they will tell you when your water column is deficient in nutrients, which will eventually happen as the...

Hi all, The rationale behind both <"Estimative and Duckweed Indices"> was that you wouldn't need to test the water. Estimative Index (EI) was designed so that the level of mineral nutrients always exceeded the plants minimum requirement and growth was dependent upon CO2 level and PAR. The...

You should ask the question which factor is limiting? Liebig's law of minimum.

Hi all, The simple answer is <"we just don't know">. A long with <"PAR"> and carbon (C) any one of the fourteen mineral elements can be <"Liebig's limiting nutrient">. Plants need most of the three macronutrients nitrogen (N), potassium (K) and phosphorus (P), so that makes them the most...

...remain unlimited the tank does not fall into the trap of bi-directional interactions and suffer the consequences of Liebig's Law of The Minimum. Furthermore, yes, I do have an EI Tutorial posted and for your information that tank in the photos were dosed with between 3X-5X EI concentration...

Thanks, I've read that a few times, i shall revisit it. That's when i started to add EDDHA, i guess i'll increase FE in DTPA form for next months batch of ferts that I'm about to mix.

Hi all, No, I'm pretty sure it isn't a nitrogen deficiency. It is back to the <"assembly line aspect"> of <"Liebig's law of the minimum">, adding more of a non-limiting nutrient doesn't give you any more growth. New leaves that pale definitely suggest a shortage of chlorophyll, and chlorosis...

...more likely. I'd be worried if that wasn't true, in some ways it is just a statement of the obvious. It is back to <"Liebig's law of the minimum"> and the "plants you want = plants" and <"the plants you don't want = algae">, the problem for us is <"they are all plants">. If you produce...

...Mg isn't going to do any harm. Your water won't contain much magnesium <"for geological reasons">, most of SE England has chalk aquifers, and chalk doesn't contribute much other than Ca++ and HCO3- ions. Yes, "Epsom salts" (MgSO4.7H2O) and ~10% Mg. <"Liebig's law of the minimum">. cheers...

...plant, then small, pale older leaves are likely to indicate nitrogen deficiency. There are some caveats, based on both <"Liebig's law of the minimum"> and other nutrient deficiencies that <"may cause pale leaves">. Initially I'd expected to be able to recommend test kits and analytical...

...make use of that extra carbon if other nutrients aren't limiting. Have a look at <"Bedside Aquarium"> (with traditional apologies to @Miss-Pepper) and <"Liebig's law of the minimum">, at the moment we just have too many <"unknown unknowns">, to be able to offer much helpful advice. cheers...

...means that your CO2 level is not stable; however, it MAY (and likely was) be in excess of other nutrients via < Liebig's law of the minimum > throughout the period so you see no CO2 shortfalls. What I mean is, suppose that at lights on it is 15 ppm, but the demand is 12 ppm due to nutrient...

...your favorite nutrient), then the plant cannot grow and as a result, the nutrients will not be absorbed. This is known as Liebig's Law of the Minimum. I particularly like this image: So, the attempt to keep your "other nutrients" low will miss the fact that we need to find what is limiting...

...then independent) comes first, then it goes: Light --> Phosphate --> CO2/O2 --> sugar --> the rest. < Justus von Liebig's Law of the Minimum states that yield is proportional to the amount of the most limiting nutrient, whichever nutrient it may be. > Every piece up to the limiting...

First, I need to clarify that I am not suggesting that ratios dictate good plant growth. Liebig's law applies in the plant. It is not about what we give it in the water column. So to fully examine, we need to look at how the plant absorbs nutrients. I.e. the structure of the leaf: passive/active...

Nope- Liebig law of the minimum , ratios are just coincidental IMO, your looking for trees and the forest is in the way, if you look for ratios you will always find them it doesn't mean the ratios have any meaning and it doesn't reach a toxic level or changes the equilibrium of the state...

Excellent advice for everyone, and probably the best route for @kellyboy47 to go down.

...filter, THEN dose minimal amounts. This will work by forcing a different nutrient (not CO2) to stop the assembly line of Liebig's law of the minimum - without running it out of course so riding a nice line - (the easiest one to use here is phosphate as it is more mobile within the plant vs...

Are any ratios sensible o_O, all depends whos theory you follow and what elements your talking about, there are no definitive answers that I am aware off. T Barr advocates Liebigs Law of minimum although you may read some of his early post when be thought that there may off been a 'magic ratio'...

...because of how "easy" the dosing/maintenance has become. I focus more on watching plants, fiddling with light, and fine-tuning CO2 ... well more like playing with it and the hundreds of variables and seeing what happens. Liebig's law of the minimum ... wife ... 🤣🤣🤣🤣 ... in due time :). Josh

...Does this matter? Personally I can’t say one way or the other whether ratios matter. It depends if you subscribe to Liebig's law of the minimum wholeheartedly or not. In the corner fighting for estimation of ratios.... if you do 80- 90% water changes weekly and have access to your water...

Hi all, I'm not a CO2 user, but my guess is its back to <"Liebig's law of the minimum"> and that the plants couldn't make use of the extra carbon (C), because carbon wasn't the nutrient limiting plant growth. The limiting element was presumably either potassium (K) or magnesium (Mg). cheers...

Thanks Darrel, I’ll to get some. Either what you suggested or any other FE based fert. Tropica Premium one has it but not sure if it’s in sufficient quantity,

...leaves on the Staurogyne repens really do look that pale? You will need to add some iron chelate as well. It is back to <"Liebig's law of the minimum">, plants are like a car assembly line, you need all the components to get a "car". You can usually easily get <"Chempak Sequestered Iron">...

...to get to a good level of potassium for a few hours each day (it will go as/ if the plants use it) . If we think about Liebig's law of the minimum- say potassium is the limiting factor, its fine if you're dosing an all in one feritliser, because the other nutrients will be in excess- maybe...

Think they already know your a PITA M8 :lol: Well according to T Barr there are no ideal ones its all about Liebig’s law, there was much debate about it in Mg in Tapwater but T Barr was suggesting a ratio for awhile some time back but more recently dismissed it, below is a quote from Darrel...

Hi all, They don’t ever actually ever choose, it always depends on the concentration of ions in solution, and valency, that is the “taxi on the rank” analogy. Plants might have mechanisms to protect them from iron toxicity etc. but the problem with most trace elements (Cu, Zn etc.) is that they...

...all the essential nutrients for plant growth are present one of them will be the limiting element, this is described by <"Liebig's law of the minimum">. "Estimative Index" (EI) was developed to ensure that the mineral nutrients are always present at non-limiting levels. I'm not a high...

I have just tested TDS and is showing around 520 at 23c. The tank is open top. Liebig's law of the minimum Maybe I should also mention the I am using the Aquarium Plant Food UK EI stater kit and mixing as per their instructions. As my tap water has around 30ppm NO3 could I stop adding KNO3...

...Cl-), and very few of those are essential plant nutrients. Both the lack of growth and high NO3 level may relate to <"Liebig's law of the minimum">. Plant growth is nutrient dependent in the same way that cars are built on an assembly line, at the speed of the limiting nutrient (or the...

...biological system. There is not a lot to say about the test numbers. They show that your dosing strategy is present. There is no ideal set of figures because all plants are different, and most nutrients tend towards Liebig's law of the minimum. I might wait a few weeks for your plants to adapt.

...for plant growth, there are fourteen of them and plants need them all in differing amounts. Have a look at the <"Liebig's law of the minimum"> link (in the linked thread). Because Salvinia is a floating plant you can discount carbon (C) and oxygen (O), the plant has access to these from the...

...ADA AS Amazonia nutrient content is pretty high, but it tends to become depleted of Nitrogen fairly quickly and then Liebig's law of the minimum kicks in, for instance. However, if you're water column dosing it shouldn't ever become a problem. And yes water column dosing can recharge a...

Hi all, You can pinch off the older leaves from both the Pistia and the Limnobium, once they've started to yellow and senesce they aren't helping the plant. You can dose it dry and use the Rotala Butterfly calculator. I use FeEDTA, but in harder water one of the <"other chelators is better">...

Hi I have read a lot of discussions and information about the needed nutrients vs deficiencies in aquatic plants. Basically they need light, macronutrients, micros and carbon. But the relations, even reading opinions/tests of people around, are not too clear to me, for example: Light. People...

...is limited by the level of one of the essential nutrients (C, N, P, K, Mg, Fe, Ca, Mn, Mo, Cu, Bo, Zn, etc), (this is <"Liebig's law of the minimum">). Adding iron (Fe) in a plant available form can only lead to increased algae growth if iron was deficient before. Have a look at <"Rotala...

Hi all, You are right, you can't test for <"available iron easily">, even with analytical grade kit. Seachem sell an iron test kit, but even they admit it isn't <"straight-forward to use">, or particularly accurate. Iron is the most common element on Earth, and the fourth more abundant in the...

...to increased plant growth, which leads to lower fixed nitrogen levels. All nutrients can be limiting (this is back to <"Liebig's law of the minimum">) but a floating plant takes carbon (CO2) out of the equation and then plants need about an order of magnitude more nitrogen (N) and potassium...

...you may have problems <"with keeping iron (Fe+++) in solution">. Plants need all the essential nutrients for growth (<"Liebig's law of the minimum">) and it doesn't matter how much you have of all the other nutrients, if one is severely limiting then you don't get any growth. You could try...

Ok thanks, so the plan is to replace the Light, trim off bad leaves and then add iron? Would I be better going for an aquarium liquid fertiliser or what you suggested? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

...like Fe DTPA or Fe EDDHA. The yellow leaves you have won't green up after iron addition, but new leaves should be greener. Have a search on the forum for <"Duckweed index">, <"Liebig's law of the minimum"> and have a look at the <"Rotala rotundifolia growth issues"> thread. cheers Darrel

Thanks Marcel, that makes sense - Liebig's Law of the Minimum an' all. I'll keep a weather eye out for the later stages of the deficiency, and in the meantime up the dosing.

...or car component, is missing then the whole process grinds to a halt. For plant nutrients this was quantified as <"Liebig's law of the minimum">. It doesn't matter how much you have of all the other <"essential nutrients for plant growth">, if you don't have any plant available iron...

...added plants, and a substrate, you don't have a single point of failure. Once our tank is established we are back to Liebig's law of the minimum, one resource will limit each organisms potential growth and levels of the main nutrients (in microbial terms "the substrate"), nitrogen, carbon...

...at all, you may find you get less than optimum growth & have to troubleshoot what is lacking. I think @dw1305 discussed "Liebig's law of the minimum" & explains that the plant can have plenty of most nutrients but it's growth will be limited by whichever nutrient that is low. So dosing in...

...were available, it is a green plant, just like the plants you want to grow. The algae was iron limited (in terms of Liebig's law of the minimum), but could show a rapid greening due to the diffusion of Fe ions into every cell. Once you stopped adding the higher dose of iron, Fe ions went...

...is limited by the level of one of the essential nutrients (C, N, P, K, Mg, Fe, Ca, Mn, Mo, Cu, Bo, Zn, etc), (this is <"Liebig's law of the minimum">). Some nutrients are mobile within the (higher) plant, and deficiencies effect older leaves. Potassium (K) would be an example, potassium...

...matter how much you have of all the other essential elements for plant growth, if one is severely deficient. It is <"Liebig's law of the minimum">. There is more in the "<linked thread">. When you supply the ion that is missing new growth will be green, but the chlorotic leaves will never...

...any of the other nutrients. The macro nutrient are often short-handed to N-P-K. Any nutrient can be limiting (this is Liebig's law of the minimum), but the most likely ones are N, K, P, Mg and iron (Fe) probably in that order. Yes, the answer to that one is, that they do to some degree...

...with rising temperature. If you aren't dosing fertiliser, your plants are unlikely to be CO2 limited (it is back to <"Liebig's law of the minimum">). If you have water high in carbonates (as HCO3- and their related cation, usually Ca++), the pH will be stable at pH7.8, and the conductivity...

...nitrogen (N) and potassium (K)), so you can't really keep it. Plant growth nearly always has one limiting nutrient (<"Liebig's law of the minimum">), which means that if you have very low PO4--- then it will limit plant growth, even where an excess of other nutrients are available. If you...

I think it is time to revisit this whole limitation concept. Liebig's law of the minimum has to do with scarceness i.e. not enough of something. All aquariums are limited to some degree. The light in an aquarium almost needs to be limited. It is nearly impossible to manage an aquarium in...

...the new tank up and we are well past that now as you will see. I actually watched a most interesting video recently on Liebig's Law of the Minimum vs. Multiple Limitation Hypothesis. If you've not seen it before it's HERE If you can't be bothered to watch- he is saying that in many cases -...

They didn't attempt to lower the co2 compensation point, they found the minimum of both light and co2 and increased them from there. I'm not saying high co2 and low light will give you better growth than low co2 and higher light. Their experiment shows it doesn't. They don't state about any...

I don't want to repeat myself as I already said what I wanted to. In my previous posts there's everything one needs to know to judge if there is something on it. Right now I'm running my tank with lean fertilizing regime, but a few months ago I dosed 3-7 ppm of PO4 together with a full EI...

Hi all, Yes, there is a difference between which element is limiting, and which elements are stopping optimal growth. Liebig's law of the minimum At any one point only one element is limiting plant growth, this is described in <"Liebig's law of the minimum">. You can think of it like an...

Jose, I don't know if I got it yet, but the above comment reminds me of something. Few months ago I did some tests with nutrient uptake, and find out that when the external nutrient concentration in water was 30 ppm NO3, 3 ppm PO4 etc. my plants were able to use up 7 ppm NO3, 0.4 ppm PO4 etc...

...(Zn), Molybdenum (Mo), copper (Cu) and Boron (B). They also require all of these elements to be as ions in solution. Liebig's law of the minimum The lack of any of these essential elements can limit plant growth. In aquatic situations CO2 is always in short supply, so if you want to enable...

Found this on one of the forums: Q1. It's ozone generator? It is not ozonizer. If you want to test, please smell it when TWINSTAR is operating in aqarium. There is nothing to smell. Q2. tell me how exactly does it work,I have M1 turned on and there is a cloud dust for about 1min. and then it...

I think any discussion would include Liebig's law of the minimum to understand how these things influence plant growth and other elements of growth. I would sub K2SO4 for KNO3. Keep with the weekly water changes. That's about the only modification you'd need to do.

Hi I have contact them about Twinstar and got this answer. Basically, there are a lot of environments of aquarium that are varied depending on the users and also there are many reasons why Green algae occurs. Before going into the details, it is necessary to understand why the Green algae...

Thanks Clive With regards to light as a nutrient - perhaps I need to qualify what I meant. I was alluding to the importance of attaining a healthy equilibrium to achieve optimum plant growth. In this respect it’s sometimes easier to consider light as a nutrient, in general terms, in that its...

There he goes again miss-quoting me and taking my comments out of context...he must be a tabloid journalist…Hang on I am sure I qualified my explanation with the prefix in “simple terms”! Lets go back and check… Yep, I was right; there it is in black and light blue. My simplified explanation...

...scientific mumbo-jumbo, it would probably be more helpful to think of both CO2 and light as nutrients. Ever heard of the Liebig's law of the minimum? It simply states that: The level of plant production can be no greater than that allowed by the most limiting of the essential plant growth...

Exactly. I too have gone from low Ca to high Ca relative to PO4 and have never had a problem as long as CO2 and the rest of the nutrients were unlimited (to the best of my ability to keep it so). I agree that it's not about EI versus some other method, but about basic physiology versus...

...not that they simply have started to dose a strongly limiting nutrient. The concept of limiting growth is based on Liebig's law of the minimum. Not ratios........... Algae are not limited based ion ratios either. They are limited based on concentration, and light and CO2 play significant...

...surely they're the ones that have done all the research..... :roll: They do make a valid point though: "In any case Von Liebig's law of the minimum applies : if one nutrient is missing or deficient, plant growth will be poor, even if the other elements are abundant." But then they go and...