• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up
  • Most of the remaining team are off on holiday meaning the forum does not have sufficient cover. As such the site will be placed in maintenance mode where it can be viewed but no posts/threads can be made and will remain this way until August 11th, apologies for the inconvience.

UKAPS, transparency and the future.

I haven't even read all these posts yet but have deleted the attached files. The information is the same as my summary and those with the files can check. Sharing names of which members have and have not donated is not fair and should not be open for general discussion. Those member making regular donation may not wish for that information to be out there.
 
Iain Sutherland said:
I haven't even read all these posts yet but have deleted the attached files. The information is the same as my summary and those with the files can check. Sharing names of which members have and have not donated is not fair and should not be open for general discussion. Those member making regular donation may not wish for that information to be out there.
Click to expand...
So how come some members have access to those files, if they’re not part of the UKAPS team?
 
Iain Sutherland said:
I haven't even read all these posts yet but have deleted the attached files. The information is the same as my summary and those with the files can check. Sharing names of which members have and have not donated is not fair and should not be open for general discussion. Those member making regular donation may not wish for that information to be out there.
Click to expand...

Quite right Iain I hadn't noticed that myself. How about now, is this better?
 

Attachments

hypnogogia said:
So how come some members have access to those files, if they’re not part of the UKAPS team?
Click to expand...

No offence to anyone, it's a fair question, but im not speaking to this stuff anymore. Either the forum wants to move on and talk about saving it or it doesnt, period.

Currently the enthusiasm to help and work towards a new future ukaps is underwhelming (heartfelt thanks to those that have offered)

To be crystal clear here, we aren't even close to having the numbers needed to save the forum.
 
@ostler you haven’t actually scrubbed the data, just put a white block over it. If you hover a cursor at the end of the row and click drag you’ll see a name.
 
castle said:
@ostler you haven’t actually scrubbed the data, just put a white block over it. If you hover a cursor at the end of the row and click drag you’ll see a name.
Click to expand...
Can you do that with a PDF?

hypnogogia said:
So how come some members have access to those files, if they’re not part of the UKAPS team?
Click to expand...
Full disclosure...
Some members of the mod team contrived to keep these files from other members. I wasn't privy to them either but managed to get hold of copies some days ago and have been trying to post them online ever since. It's why I've been banned several times now. In desperation I shared them with a few key members, I just felt compelled to try and do the right thing, no other agenda.
 
Last edited:
Iain Sutherland said:
No offence to anyone, it's a fair question, but im not speaking to this stuff anymore. Either the forum wants to move on and talk about saving it or it doesnt, period.
Click to expand...
I think it very much does Iain but censoring that conversation isn't really the way forward. You've facilitated it, now just leave folk to decide for themselves. And I'll do the same.
 
Iain Sutherland said:
No offence to anyone, it's a fair question, but im not speaking to this stuff anymore. Either the forum wants to move on and talk about saving it or it doesnt, period.
Click to expand...
The forum is a collective of many individuals, of course we all have different opinions. And we have been discouraged from hashing any of this out or trying to figure things out ourselves. I don't know what you expect.
Iain Sutherland said:
Currently the enthusiasm to help and work towards a new future ukaps is underwhelming (heartfelt thanks to those that have offered)

To be crystal clear here, we aren't even close to having the numbers needed to save the forum.
Click to expand...
How many people do you need here? How many people have volunteered? What exactly are the powers and responsibilities? Do the mods work together as a team or is this mostly solo work? Are international members even welcome to volunteer? Because the last time I saw an American step up, he was quite forcefully shot down for that reason and no one ever said anything about it. The lack of information is probably part of why the response has been tepid.

The mod team has been very critical of the member base at large, but there hasn't been nearly enough communication with us. Again, we are unconnected individuals. I am sorry for the abuse and stress aimed at you guys, but that has nothing to do with the rest of us.

I have asked very basic questions about throughout this whole thing and have been ignored at every point. I am trying to read between the lines and I can't figure out if tons of stuff is happening behind the scenes or basically nothing. It isn't fostering the feeling of mutual good will needed right now.
 
ostler said:
Can you do that with a PDF?


Full disclosure...
Because some members of the mod team contrived to keep these files from other members. I wasn't privy to them either but I managed to get hold of copies some days ago and have been trying to post them online ever since. It's why I've been banned several times now. I just felt compelled to try and do the right thing, no other agenda.
Click to expand...

This is wholeheartedly untrue, almost the entire mod team has left because of this vitriol and the insistence of a conspiracy will singlehandedly kill ukaps... sadly I think that is the objective now.

If members wish for this thread to become about this again then the forum is dead already.

Goodnight all.
 
ElleDee said:
The forum is a collective of many individuals, of course we all have different opinions. And we have been discouraged from hashing any of this out or trying to figure things out ourselves. I don't know what you expect.

How many people do you need here? How many people have volunteered? What exactly are the powers and responsibilities? Do the mods work together as a team or is this mostly solo work? Are international members even welcome to volunteer? Because the last time I saw an American step up, he was quite forcefully shot down for that reason and no one ever said anything about it. The lack of information is probably part of why the response has been tepid.

The mod team has been very critical of the member base at large, but there hasn't been nearly enough communication with us. Again, we are unconnected individuals. I am sorry for the abuse and stress aimed at you guys, but that has nothing to do with the rest of us.

I have asked very basic questions about throughout this whole thing and have been ignored at every point. I am trying to read between the lines and I can't figure out if tons of stuff is happening behind the scenes or basically nothing. It isn't fostering the feeling of mutual good will needed right now.
Click to expand...

Sorry these are all great questions and happy to talk these out but im pretty exhausted. We need at least 6 committed members for committee roles who have a variety of duties. The hard graft will be getting set up, bank accounts, constitution etc after that not so much aside normal admin duties and some planning for AGM etc. Team members have always been welcome from anywhere, sorry if that hasn't felt the case in the past.

Currently we have in effect zero people with the time and energy to run the forum. The remaining team, myself included, have lost significant amounts of motivation for this and really only wish to do basic day to day moderation. It really was/is the final role of the dice.

Then the real crux, managing the IT. This is no small job that Paulo was ( and still is) doing it for years simply because the forum was a great community and he, like most of the team, loved it. But like any one sided relationship it can get sour and this feels like the break up.

It's dead but not buried, if only someone would put the spade down.

Sorry if this is abrupt, it's been a long day 🙏
 
I think the sentiment is clear that people want to move on and support the society.

I hope that my posts haven't been read as a personal attack...more bemused and disappointed.

In response to the question about the financial information provided. It doesn't seem to address the core concerns raised. More information would be helpful or if you want to draw a line just state that the there will be a new team, a new structure and new legal entity.

The bottom line is this shouldn't have escalated, full, rapid and clear financial transparency could have shown this to be just a storm in a teacup. The lack of it doesn't inspire confidence.

Moving forward, one way of perhaps soliciting further support would be to outline how you see the membership organisation working. The sorts of questions that occur to me are:

Will their be 'clear blue water' between the old and the new?
What roles or activities are needed ( short, medium and longterm)?
What are the five key priority issues (ie where do you need urgent support)?
There are a number of different legal structures you could follow (Legal structures for community groups and not-for-profit organisations | Resource Centre). Which one are you thinking of implementing?

What are your timeframes?

If you aren't sure on these yet, do you need help to manage the transition in the form of a small team (communications, finance, relationship management with sponsors, legal...).

By 'you' I do mean those people that are currently managing the forum/ UKAPS.

Finally, please reinstate Tim, his different aliases are becoming really confusing.
 
I'm happy to accept a statement by a majority of the old moderators that they accept the financial past and draw a line. That seems to be what is being suggested, or implied. Would it work to ask for a one time only donation from as many members as can manage it, to get a fund to pay for the new structure to be set up, whether that's paying for existing volunteers with the right skills, or a limited number of hours to a professional.
 
Onoma1 said:
or if you want to draw a line just state that the there will be a new team, a new structure and new legal entity.
Click to expand...
If you read the previous post from Iain thats exactly what he is trying to do! Also he seems happy with the finances so, let's move forward!
I see new accounts being created just to make fun of the people that are trying to sort this out, I stuck around as I was in the middle of a long term transition, but I am also close to throwing in the towel, I am getting to a point now that the decision to step down was correct, due to the toxic nature of UKAPS over the past year or so by some members (the majority is fine), but one gets tired after 15 years looking after this and playing the bad cop all the time and some always ganging up on you for trying to make this place what I always envisioned it to be, a safe place for all to share their tanks and have a bit of fun, when this stopped being fun for me, I knew my days were numbered, and to be honest at the moment I am coming to a point where I actually don't care what happens to UKAPS!
 
Last edited:
Iain Sutherland said:
Sorry these are all great questions and happy to talk these out but im pretty exhausted. We need at least 6 committed members for committee roles who have a variety of duties. The hard graft will be getting set up, bank accounts, constitution etc after that not so much aside normal admin duties and some planning for AGM etc. Team members have always been welcome from anywhere, sorry if that hasn't felt the case in the past.

Currently we have in effect zero people with the time and energy to run the forum. The remaining team, myself included, have lost significant amounts of motivation for this and really only wish to do basic day to day moderation. It really was/is the final role of the dice.

Then the real crux, managing the IT. This is no small job that Paulo was ( and still is) doing it for years simply because the forum was a great community and he, like most of the team, loved it. But like any one sided relationship it can get sour and this feels like the break up.

It's dead but not buried, if only someone would put the spade down.

Sorry if this is abrupt, it's been a long day 🙏
Click to expand...
I really appreciate this response.

I am disinterested in the financial aspect personally. I'm not even saying that it's unimportant per se, I just can't get worked up when I haven't seen any real evidence of maleficence.

So setting that aside, the organization is in shambles. @Onoma1 asked some great questions. Who is the point person for the mods? Are you guys hashing stuff out behind the scenes? (I understand the morale issue.)

If someone hasn't already started, it may be a good time to start doomsday planning. What really happens if everyone walks away? Can the archive be preserved? Can new sign ups be paused and everyone else try to continue without moderation? I have no idea if these are good ideas, I'm just spit balling here. The point is that if everything is going to come crashing down, it would be nice if could be done with some care as opposed to haphazardly. Hopefully no plans would need to be enacted, obviously!
 
ElleDee said:
So setting that aside, the organization is in shambles. @Onoma1 asked some great questions. Who is the point person for the mods? Are you guys hashing stuff out behind the scenes? (I understand the morale issue.)
Click to expand...
If you guys read what Iain has written, as the spokes person here and making these statements and clearly says what is being done:

"The few team members that remain have one objective now - to keep ukaps alive by formalising a change over of the society from founder ownership into member ownership."

So its clear what the team is doing in the background! So there might not be enough people to formalize this properly, hence he did also ask for help in the first post, do you want to help? Raise your hand and do so (in the past very few actually raised their hands for anything). Apart from a couple of chats all I see here is what you guys see here, it's not that hard to understand!

Once the constitution is formed and a plan drawn up, of existing and new members, even if temporary to get this thing off the ground, it will set a platform to pass it along to anyone else in the future, and if no one else steps up in the future it dies anyway.

I made it simple for a decade, now this will be super complicated to pull off in terms of a society, I managed the Team, I managed the forum Admin duties, I managed the Server, the Mods looked out for issues on froum, ensured posting was adequate and members were in line with our policies, and we dealt with them. The members created the content and most of the time self moderated the forum anyway!

Like it was said this was a hobby for most of us, and now its turning into something else, let the team come up with a plan (which is what I am also waiting for, this might take many weeks, people have lives, we are on holidays season, and I am no longer in the team, I am providing minimal IT support if needed, nothing else, just to keep this going for now), I have told Iain for the plan not to include me in it, but if I am needed for a short period to let me know what I am needed for, and it's up to me to agree to those terms or provide my own terms, and take it from there.

If you don't accept what has been provided, just ask the team to delete your account and move on! I think everyone has better things to get on with in their lives!! If this keeps going as it is and for member(s) that seems to just want Dan's head on a stick, then its a lost cause and then who is going to want to volunteer anyway?

This will be my last post on UKAPS for the foreseeable future....
 
.. oh dear🫣 ... I aint been on in a while but didnt realise ukaps was at this stage on its journey! The resourses this forum holds is next to none! I learnt from this site back in arouns 2012/13> ....and with alot of forums back then, facebook appeared and forums took a back seat! I would hate to see ukaps fold, but would get it due to the work goes on behind the scenes from Paulo and company.
I dunno what to think tbh🤷‍♂️
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top