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UKAPS, transparency and the future.

Iain Sutherland

Iain Sutherland

Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
7 Jul 2011
Messages
3,761
Location
Cambridge
Hello fellow Ukaps'ers.

As most of you will be aware UKAPS has been going through a tough time and in truth, its been pretty terrible for the ukaps team trying to keep it together, working out the best future for ukaps all while being attacked. During the past few weeks most of the Ukaps team have quit due to the stress and abuse received for something we do voluntarily and supposedly for fun!

Up until last week, i dont think any of the ukaps team had seen any financial information, ever, and also didn't feel a need to. This is a hobby and most of us signed up to help moderate content and have no interest in running a forum and certainly not the politics of it. Our slow reactions have been perceived by some as planning some sort of cover up but truth be told, we all have lives to live, some of us messy, inconvenient and emotionally draining lives and this mess just isnt the priority. I and the team hoped that members would understand (a vast majority of you did, thanks) trusting we would get there but slow and deliberate moves is the better option than rash ill thought out ones.

We had discussions with Dan Crawford who sent financial summaries showing donations, costs and sponsorship and be clear - Ukaps is not awash with funds as you see in the attachemnet. I fully appreciate that some members (and especially ex members) of the community may feel this is not enough and more financial clarity is needed. If you feel this way please do post below and the forum community can decide where this is going. I should also say the summary below is calendar years with 2024 obviously being 6 months, there has been a further significant server cost since.
For me (and i only speak for myself here) the accounts are so small and the information provided is close to what i would expect that i am happy to trust Dan, as the forum has for the last 15 years, and to commit to moving Ukaps forward rather than wasting time looking back.

The few team members that remain have one objective now - to keep ukaps alive by formalising a change over of the society from founder ownership into member ownership.

Ukaps was set up by friends with a shared passion, it was never a business but has now (maybe some time ago!) got to a point it needs to change its format for the future and the size of membership it now has.
Everyone using the forum would agree that it is an amazing resource, created by its members and with the goodwill of members who become moderators and Admins (@LondonDragon bloody legend!). Many of you will know i havent really used the forum much of late but it was there for me when i wanted it and i would like for it to still be there when i have time to get involved again. I would be truly sad if it were to die.

But we are a crossroads folks and I fear Ukaps will not be here in the future if this last role of the dice doesnt play out.

The forum needs you to decide what happens. If the members want to move forward, accepting a change of ownership in good faith from the founders then the remaining team will try to do our best to pull that together around holidays and life. If the stink that has been going on behind the scenes continues and members react when supposed 'new members' post further suggestions of wrong doing, then the last of the team will probably step down as we just dont need the grief and that will be that.

If you want ukaps to be around for the future, we need staff to moderate the forum and we need moderators to then become members of the societies' newly formed committee with official duties. The duties would be minimal and not require large amounts of time but will be a commitment none the less especially as we get ourselves reorganised after the past weeks.

If you would like to help, you’ll have a history with the forum, consistent posting, been around a year or more and have the right demeaner within your posts to maintain what makes Ukaps amazing; friendly, moderate, inclusive feel and interested in others endeavors. Extremes of opinion need not apply. Please comment below and we will be in touch, alternatively drop me a DM.

If you have particular skills - IT, finance, accountant, secretary, event organising etc then also please say so or message as this would be a great help in ensuring we have a mixed skill base when it comes to the committee roles.

Assuming folks come forward and Ukaps lives to fight another day then further info around the Society and its constitution will be shared as soon as its finalised and agreed.

Cheerio

Iain
 

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I have been a member for only six months, and it's been extremely helpful. I don't have the skills or experience to help with the forum's 'core mission', but I do want it to continue as a community of like-minded, positive, and friendly people. I want us to move forward, and I agree that we just have to put our swords down at this point.

Due to my inexperience and newness in the field, I can only offer consistent financial support to help the 'back-end' keep working and let others focus on the 'front-end'. But if it's needed, then I am in.
 
@Iain Sutherland, thank you for this. It seems very timely. In a time of friction and ambiguity, one of the best things that can be done is to communicate frequently and transparently. Professionally, my advice to managers seeking to manage teams through change is to communicate as much as possible, and that there is no such things as over communicating as everybody responds to chi he differently and everybody need to be taken along. Even if that communication is “we’re still working on it”. On that basis, this post is timely and I’m sure welcomed by many.
 
This sounds like good news to me. I believe Ukaps will be the better for having been through this all, though saddened that it has caused so much division and hurt. I'd like to hope that everyone ultimately wants the same thing in moving forward with a more appropriate and accountable organizational structure behind the scenes so that the forum and, importantly, the community can continue to thrive.
I hope those who feel skeptical or mislead about the management in the past can also move on seeing that it is being taken seriously, within the capacity and resources of the team, and that the call for transparency will lead to change.
I'd love to offer to help though I've not yet been on a year and suspect the time I could offer will be too little at this stage of life. Willing to give it a trial run if you need me 😃
 
Without knowing the amounts of the individual sponsorships from the contributing brand partners over the years it is impossible to know what the current bank balance should be. However, that is not the issue. The main point should be that the UKAPS can continue under new and transparent guardianship and let the past be the past. The preservation of the accumulated content is the most important thing.
 
Thanks for writing in such a generous and clear way. I agree with what others say and just want to add my own emphasis that things said online, in the heat of the moment, do hurt. I hope everyone who has felt that can now heal and put it behind them. Of course I'd like UKAPS to continue, and especially for those who have run it to feel welcome and appreciated.
 
Thank you for taking the time to write this Iain and for endeavouring to engage open and honest discussion.

I don’t think there is a single member that doesn’t want UKAPS to survive. But transparency of the forums finances has proven a hugely divisive and emotive issue. We have all been through a tough time, each of us trying to do what is right but approaching a very difficult situation from our own different perspectives and points of view.

And thank you also for posting those figures. It’s a step in the right direction toward transparency and a more solid foundation upon which to build a new membership society. However as you, and everyone else is aware, I am one of those members that had hoped for complete transparency regarding the forums accounts. But I trust that will be forthcoming in the fullness of time.

Either way, I appreciate what you want to achieve and fully support this new direction. UKAPS members are its greatest asset, and collectively already encapsulate the core values of a healthy community or society; integrity, ethics, respect, and fairness. I wish you, and whoever steps up to help, all the best going forward.

All that said, it would be nice to contribute as myself once again and as an ordinary member. So it’d be appreciated if my account could be unblocked. And that any remaining access I have to the moderating panel be removed.

Tim
 
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Iain Sutherland said:
The few team members that remain have one objective now - to keep ukaps alive by formalising a change over of the society from founder ownership into member ownership.
Click to expand...


What does this mean? Will this be a legal entity? Cooperative?

Thanks 👍
 
hypnogogia said:
It would be helpful if the donations file could be provided as tab delimited rather than PDF as it's near impossible to read.
Click to expand...
Copy, and paste into notepad, save as csv file, open in Excel! simple
Thats how I did it just now 😉
 
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Thanks @seedoubleyou for posting these. And you’re right without bank statements or data to back them up these are just meaningless documents. Banks hold 7 years of statements, so there is no reason not to produce legitimate and detailed accounts for this entire period.

This maybe a private bank account but it is also the UKAPS account and if the statements show any transactions other than UKAPS business that’s a whole different conversation.

Making those statements public is a legitimate line of enquiry and one all UKAPS members should concern themselves with. This especially so if UKAPS is to move on in a positive way.

Also remember this mismanagement of UKAPS funds has been going on for 17 years so the amount of money involved is not insubstantial.

BTW I don’t know why I’m bothering to post, since nearly every one on this subject has been deleted and I’ve been banned twice trying to get the truth out. That in itself should tell you all you need to know about the governance of this society going forward. And I won’t be surprised if this one disappears and this account is also banned.

Tim
 
To put this behind us, some of us would want to see a summery based on real verifiable bank statements for the duration handed over to a certified accountant to look at, so everyone can be assured. @Wookii is a pro and offered up to help. Very easily done by a professional accountant and not very costly - pretty sure plenty of us will chip in to cover expenses if such might occur.

Also Tim's account (@ostler) should be reinstated immediately.

Just my 2 cents. I will keep refraining from posting on general hobby topics until this is resolved.

Cheers,
Michael
 
Just my 2 cents....

There is £3882 in Ukaps bank account. This is enough to keep the forum afloat for around 3 years, so not to be sneezed at.
What's happened in the past is water under the bridge unfortunately, regardless of the rights or wrongs that have happened.

Almost reminds me of my Grandad banging on about the bloody Germans all the time. Lol.

Can we try and move forward from this point, otherwise the forum is going to crash and disappear into the abyss.

Let's get the forum restructured, insist from this point on financial transparency happens and let's all put this behind us.

Btw another vote here for allowing Tim to re access his account as a member.

Cheerio.
 
I wonder if it might be necessary to start a new organisation, either a registered charity or other non-profit (I am not sure of the legal requirements), and buy the assets (including rights to UKAPS name, website, domain name etc) from the previous guardian for a token sum? There is some murk as to what type of legal entity the society is at present - is it a privately owned for profit company, a registered charity (very doubtful), or other type of non-profit organisation? It seems like it would be good to get some type of clear legal separation between the old and the new.
 
@John q that's a fair point. At least now though folk have a bigger picture upon which to base a more informed decision regarding the way forward. Censorship of legitimate concerns has absolutely no place in a true membership society. Or any democratic governance for that matter.
 
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