milesjames
Member
Those who followed the "Fidelia squid: Dutch Aquascape 55ltr" journal will know that my last dutch scape was in a 55ltr. This journal is the next step of the journey...
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Dutch 110ltr
- Thread starter milesjames
- Start date
milesjames
Member
So I have been holding back a bit with this feed as I wanted to get the tank started before giving too many details, but..... There has been a little chaos that is worth sharing.
Some may have come across the feed I wrote about the rummy nose being too busy and indeed they were.
They were no stressed or showing signs of I'll health but the tank to be frank was just not long enough for them. So I'd sit watching them shole left, right and each time it felt off as they could never really gain speed before turning.
To add to this my "female" golden ram turned out to be a chap and things were not going well between the 2 of them.
So after a week I decided to return both to the lfs. Unfortunately I'm not sure if anyone has had the pleasure of trying to catch rummy nose tetra but this proved to be much harder than anticipated.
After 3hrs I managed to catch 7 of the rummy nose and the ram, at this point I gave up. So I took them to the store discussed the issues and some how left with 12 golden cloud minnows.... Thinking I'll catch the last rummy nose and all be well.
But as any keen aquarist will have now realised I now have a golden ram, 5 harlequin rasbora, 8 rummy nose and 12 cloud minnow, which as they will know are not a normal mix due to temperature needs. But I have found there is a mid ground for all 28 degrees...
I hear you say but its over stocked!! and indeed it is. But this wierd minagery has shown signs of working as a community!!! The minnows being too dwellers have settled in well, the rasbora and rummys are happy in the middle and the ram well he does what ever he likes.
So this very unlike me collection of fish may stay for a while... Not just because I'm lazy to catch the rummy nose but because they all seem to have found an unstressed equalibrium.
The plants have grown in well the readings seem good. (though I am doing 2-3 weekly wch) Much to my dismay at myself at the clear districtive nature of throwing my dutch style stocking to the bin. I think I may accept this.
Photos will follow and plant listing soon let me know what you think as I'm sure you will.
Miles James
Some may have come across the feed I wrote about the rummy nose being too busy and indeed they were.
They were no stressed or showing signs of I'll health but the tank to be frank was just not long enough for them. So I'd sit watching them shole left, right and each time it felt off as they could never really gain speed before turning.
To add to this my "female" golden ram turned out to be a chap and things were not going well between the 2 of them.
So after a week I decided to return both to the lfs. Unfortunately I'm not sure if anyone has had the pleasure of trying to catch rummy nose tetra but this proved to be much harder than anticipated.
After 3hrs I managed to catch 7 of the rummy nose and the ram, at this point I gave up. So I took them to the store discussed the issues and some how left with 12 golden cloud minnows.... Thinking I'll catch the last rummy nose and all be well.
But as any keen aquarist will have now realised I now have a golden ram, 5 harlequin rasbora, 8 rummy nose and 12 cloud minnow, which as they will know are not a normal mix due to temperature needs. But I have found there is a mid ground for all 28 degrees...
I hear you say but its over stocked!! and indeed it is. But this wierd minagery has shown signs of working as a community!!! The minnows being too dwellers have settled in well, the rasbora and rummys are happy in the middle and the ram well he does what ever he likes.
So this very unlike me collection of fish may stay for a while... Not just because I'm lazy to catch the rummy nose but because they all seem to have found an unstressed equalibrium.
The plants have grown in well the readings seem good. (though I am doing 2-3 weekly wch) Much to my dismay at myself at the clear districtive nature of throwing my dutch style stocking to the bin. I think I may accept this.
Photos will follow and plant listing soon let me know what you think as I'm sure you will.
Miles James
milesjames
Member
milesjames
Member
Correct 😊 it came in a bit leggy but hoping to push the lighting higher to accommodate once past the early stages 😊
milesjames
Member
Blue shrimp from the last tank in and 2 dwarf otocinclus. Though I may look to sort out stocking and increase the otocinclus to 5.
milesjames
Member
milesjames
Member
So think it's time to list the plants!!
- cabomba Furcata
- rotala green
- rotala h'ra
- limnophila aromatica
- limnophila Stella
- rotala wallichii
- mayaca sellowiniana
- alternanthera reineckii mini
- lobelia cardinalis mini
- red lotus
- hygrophila lancea araguaia
- ludwigia sp. super red
plantnoobdude
Member
If you’re going for a true Dutch tank. You will need to reduce the number of species to 1sp every 10cm of tank length.
Here are some good articles on Dutch style.
Some Rules for Dutch Style Aquascaping - A Quick Guide for Beginners
www.aquatic-gardeners.org
Tips And Tricks For Dutch Style Aquascaping
Tips and Tricks for Dutch Style Aquascaping
barrreport.com
Hope you don’t mind a few criticisms.
Plant groups poorly defined, you’d want a good couple cm between groups.
Ludwigia and althernanthera are mirroring each other.
Too many species.
The light green stems have very little contrast and are very similar textures.
Use of red cabomba on the side, makes the tank seem smaller,
Anyway, if you weren’t planning on making a true Dutch style aquarium you can happily ignore all the above, and enjoy your aquarium. It looks great and should keep on getting better as the plants grow in.
milesjames
Member
Hi Plantnoobdude,If you’re going for a true Dutch tank. You will need to reduce the number of species to 1sp every 10cm of tank length.
Here are some good articles on Dutch style.
Some Rules for Dutch Style Aquascaping - A Quick Guide for Beginners
Tips And Tricks For Dutch Style Aquascaping
Tips and Tricks for Dutch Style Aquascaping
Hope you don’t mind a few criticisms.
Plant groups poorly defined, you’d want a good couple cm between groups.
Ludwigia and althernanthera are mirroring each other.
Too many species.
The light green stems have very little contrast and are very similar textures.
Use of red cabomba on the side, makes the tank seem smaller,
Anyway, if you weren’t planning on making a true Dutch style aquarium you can happily ignore all the above, and enjoy your aquarium. It looks great and should keep on getting better as the plants grow in.
Welcome to the journal and thank you for the feedback😊
As you will know from my other feeds I am a man who likes to break a few dutch rules though I believe I'm closure than you think with this one.
I have read all the articles you sent before and quite few more, so yes I'm aware of my rule breaking behaviour.
Though I'd be careful in future on your speed to comment as many dutch scrapers like myself enjoy evolving a scape as we go like a painter. As well as the fact that some plants will grow in different colours and are intended to be vastly different heights.
Plus as you will know Dennis Wong, Erkut Akylidiz, Tom barr, to name a few have never broken a rule for aesthetic purposes. 😉
I hope you don't mind the feedback but please find a break down on why some but not all of your comments are valid in the post below. This is not to put you on the spot, more so you can grasp some more insight into the Dutch start up. Including how planning, planting and prepping for final composition can be different from scaper to scaper.
milesjames
Member
So I will break down your comments but try to give insight to me as a dutch scaper and the tank its self.
1. Plant groups poorly defined, you’d want a good couple cm between groups.
I plant densely this is due to the fact that I do fish in cycling and will communly plant too close initially to ensure plants get good light. Then I bring the groupings in tighter and in some case move them entirely once converted.
I have spoken about this in previous journals as I find myself being more fluid in setting composition. In some cases I even leave bare areas and bring new plants in one at a time to support in this process.
Currently though I can see you will struggle from photos I have 2 fingers widths between plants at the rear of the scape. These were mature plants and I intend them to bush out and will trim them back to reveal the gaps once settled.
Forground plants are arranged tighter for light purposes but will be brought in together at a later stage.
2. Ludwigia and althernanthera are mirroring each other.
Interesting comment as in one way you are correct!! I have 2 red streets running which are nearly parallel but are going towards different view points.
This will change over time as the ludwigia will become a tall Bush framed in front by the rotala green and cardinalis. My hope is this will not feel like a road more a thin Bush that will add depth. Whilst the alternanthera will play the road role and be the deep red of the lower area of the scape.
3. Too many species.
This is the comment where I hold my hands up!! I am a bit of a plant enthusiast and will break this rule nearly every time!!
Though I feel 12 for a 70x30cm based aquarium is pritty good for me and I needed the rotala green to hide the Ludwigia sp red.
4. The light green stems have very little contrast and are very similar textures.
I'm afraid this comment is where you are wrong. The only greens that sit next to each other are the cardinalis, rotala green and the mayaca sellowiniana.
All are different textures and heights. They will pass the squint test and will be obscured by other coloured plants at points where they meet over time.
Please remember plants develop colour over time so the rotala h'ra will be yellowy pink and the aromatica is actually got good purples when fully grown.
5. Use of red cabomba on the side, makes the tank seem smaller,
Yes you are correct this is to cover the hideous in tank filter. Though I'm not bothered by this as actually I am an advocate for large plants in front that dominate as I believe it develops stronger depths when viewing the tank in real life not just in a photo.
I have plans for a canister filter and I'm sure if I intend to enter for compitition I'll be making alterations to this area.
After this little rant I'd like to say thank you for your feedback I do actually enjoy getting it. I hope you don't mind the break down on your points this is more to discuss my tank and my style/choices.
I love this hobby for its vast range of approaches and styles. I can but only hope one day I can hold my hands up and say yes my tank meets all of the rules of true dutch style, but for now I'm happy to get just 5 points on feedback 😂
I assume you must be working on a dutch tank yourself @plantnoobdude send me a link so I can follow you back. 😊
1. Plant groups poorly defined, you’d want a good couple cm between groups.
I plant densely this is due to the fact that I do fish in cycling and will communly plant too close initially to ensure plants get good light. Then I bring the groupings in tighter and in some case move them entirely once converted.
I have spoken about this in previous journals as I find myself being more fluid in setting composition. In some cases I even leave bare areas and bring new plants in one at a time to support in this process.
Currently though I can see you will struggle from photos I have 2 fingers widths between plants at the rear of the scape. These were mature plants and I intend them to bush out and will trim them back to reveal the gaps once settled.
Forground plants are arranged tighter for light purposes but will be brought in together at a later stage.
2. Ludwigia and althernanthera are mirroring each other.
Interesting comment as in one way you are correct!! I have 2 red streets running which are nearly parallel but are going towards different view points.
This will change over time as the ludwigia will become a tall Bush framed in front by the rotala green and cardinalis. My hope is this will not feel like a road more a thin Bush that will add depth. Whilst the alternanthera will play the road role and be the deep red of the lower area of the scape.
3. Too many species.
This is the comment where I hold my hands up!! I am a bit of a plant enthusiast and will break this rule nearly every time!!
Though I feel 12 for a 70x30cm based aquarium is pritty good for me and I needed the rotala green to hide the Ludwigia sp red.
4. The light green stems have very little contrast and are very similar textures.
I'm afraid this comment is where you are wrong. The only greens that sit next to each other are the cardinalis, rotala green and the mayaca sellowiniana.
All are different textures and heights. They will pass the squint test and will be obscured by other coloured plants at points where they meet over time.
Please remember plants develop colour over time so the rotala h'ra will be yellowy pink and the aromatica is actually got good purples when fully grown.
5. Use of red cabomba on the side, makes the tank seem smaller,
Yes you are correct this is to cover the hideous in tank filter. Though I'm not bothered by this as actually I am an advocate for large plants in front that dominate as I believe it develops stronger depths when viewing the tank in real life not just in a photo.
I have plans for a canister filter and I'm sure if I intend to enter for compitition I'll be making alterations to this area.
After this little rant I'd like to say thank you for your feedback I do actually enjoy getting it. I hope you don't mind the break down on your points this is more to discuss my tank and my style/choices.
I love this hobby for its vast range of approaches and styles. I can but only hope one day I can hold my hands up and say yes my tank meets all of the rules of true dutch style, but for now I'm happy to get just 5 points on feedback 😂
I assume you must be working on a dutch tank yourself @plantnoobdude send me a link so I can follow you back. 😊
plantnoobdude
Member
👍 sounds good.
strongly agree. But I think a darkish green would open up the tank more.
fair enough, excited to see how this tank progresses!
Not at the moment no. I have a 60p high tech, but that is far from Dutch, too many reds, more of a fertiliser experiment tank. Would love a 90p in the future for a Dutch though.
milesjames
Member
Hey plantnoobdude,
Send over 60p journal link would love to check out your work. 😊
plantnoobdude
Member
My 60p soft water
wallichii Improvements in cuphea Clean old growth Stunted leaves collect algae, specifically GDA. These are the stems I replanted without roots. This plant fairs much better if you chop it down and let sideshoots develop. I’ve always had problems with buce. Seems lately they’re doing better...
www.ukaps.org
_Maq_
Member
Do I see correctly that you struggle with iron deficiency?
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
I was wondering that as well, whether the pale tips really are that pale? Or just the colour has been washed out by the light in the photo?
cheers Darrel
Last edited:
GreggZ
Member
I was having same thought. Cabomba Furcata should be a pretty deep red.
Could be color of light, intensity of light, fert issue, or even camera settings.
@milesjames are these the colors you see in person??
I know Dennis and Tom pretty well and neither claims to present a Dutch scape. Dutch-Hybrid, Dutch Inspired, or whatever someone wants to call it, but would likely be DQ'd in a Dutch contest.
That being said judging has become somewhat more lax over time. Good luck with your presentation. I look forward to seeing how it evolves from here.
milesjames
Member
Hi all
@_Maq_ @dw1305 @GreggZ
So you are all correct the cabomba is not showing correct colours as of yet, the photos do not help as the colours don't really show through.
I'm increasing light slowly as the tank is relatively new, so it is likely this is contributing. I dose 0.20 mg/l every 3 days. So likely the iron is low as this should be 0.10 - 0.15 mg/l every 2 days givin the number of red plants.
Let me know what you think guys, will update you shortly been away this week.
@_Maq_ @dw1305 @GreggZ
So you are all correct the cabomba is not showing correct colours as of yet, the photos do not help as the colours don't really show through.
I'm increasing light slowly as the tank is relatively new, so it is likely this is contributing. I dose 0.20 mg/l every 3 days. So likely the iron is low as this should be 0.10 - 0.15 mg/l every 2 days givin the number of red plants.
Let me know what you think guys, will update you shortly been away this week.
