-
You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up
Remineralising Agent for RO Water
- Thread starter Mrblo
- Start date
Hi,
Depending on what plants you want to keep there are different options. "Softwater" plants means plants which don't like carbonates (=low kH). These are plants that I want to keep. So I only remineralise with a Ca:Mg 3:1 Remineraliser. Ca + Mg makes up general hardness. (I am currently remineralising to 5°dGH with Brightwell aquatics Calcion and Magnesion... I couldn't find just a Ca:Mg 3:1 remineraliser already made)
You can use some commercial mixes if you are not fussed on the types of plants you can grow (vast majority of plants in shops will grow in "hard" water) . For example, many people use JBL aquadur. The only problem with that is some contain phosphates so it might upset your fertilsing schedule/ ideas. Not sure if aquadur does.
Another option is dennerles Shrimp King GH/KH+ salt. This has some other minerals in for shrimp but has been used successfully on planted tanks.
I prefer liquids because theyre easier to measure more precisely, another reason why I'm using Magnesion and Calcion
Depending on what plants you want to keep there are different options. "Softwater" plants means plants which don't like carbonates (=low kH). These are plants that I want to keep. So I only remineralise with a Ca:Mg 3:1 Remineraliser. Ca + Mg makes up general hardness. (I am currently remineralising to 5°dGH with Brightwell aquatics Calcion and Magnesion... I couldn't find just a Ca:Mg 3:1 remineraliser already made)
You can use some commercial mixes if you are not fussed on the types of plants you can grow (vast majority of plants in shops will grow in "hard" water) . For example, many people use JBL aquadur. The only problem with that is some contain phosphates so it might upset your fertilsing schedule/ ideas. Not sure if aquadur does.
Another option is dennerles Shrimp King GH/KH+ salt. This has some other minerals in for shrimp but has been used successfully on planted tanks.
I prefer liquids because theyre easier to measure more precisely, another reason why I'm using Magnesion and Calcion
You are best buying your own raw salts - they are so much cheaper than branded remineralisers and utilise the exact same minerals anyway. I get the salts from APC Pure, but there are lots of sellers online if you do a Google search.
For KH adjustment use Potassium Carbonate or Bicarbonate.
For GH adjustment you have a few options, but I use Calcium Chloride and Magnesium Sulphate in a 4:1 ratio, as they are both easy to dissolve.
James Planted tank website has some good info on remineralisation - James' Planted Tank - Re-mineralising RO Water
As for the 'best' values, that a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question, and will be determined more by what critters you intend to keep. The plants won't care too much but people who run softer water tanks always seem to have a bit of an easier time with their tanks, than those with very hard water. If you have shrimp then you need some calcium in the water column - slightly more for Neocaridina than Caridina. I'd target around 5-6 dGH, but I have read of people successfully keeping shrimp in even softer water, plus you can supplement their diet with high calcium foods (Mulberry leaves for example), and maybe 2-3 dKH.
If you don't have shrimp, then choose values based on the fish you intend to keep - the Seriously Fish database has values for most species: Seriously Fish
For KH adjustment use Potassium Carbonate or Bicarbonate.
For GH adjustment you have a few options, but I use Calcium Chloride and Magnesium Sulphate in a 4:1 ratio, as they are both easy to dissolve.
James Planted tank website has some good info on remineralisation - James' Planted Tank - Re-mineralising RO Water
As for the 'best' values, that a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question, and will be determined more by what critters you intend to keep. The plants won't care too much but people who run softer water tanks always seem to have a bit of an easier time with their tanks, than those with very hard water. If you have shrimp then you need some calcium in the water column - slightly more for Neocaridina than Caridina. I'd target around 5-6 dGH, but I have read of people successfully keeping shrimp in even softer water, plus you can supplement their diet with high calcium foods (Mulberry leaves for example), and maybe 2-3 dKH.
If you don't have shrimp, then choose values based on the fish you intend to keep - the Seriously Fish database has values for most species: Seriously Fish
Thank you very much for advice.
I don't keep any shrimps in the tank I'm talking about. Only fish species from South America, so they like soft and acidic water.
I'm mineralising my water with Qualdrop plant GH+ at the moment, but would like to switch for something more widely available in the UK. Also been adding a bit of sodium bicarbonate to boost KH.
So at the moment I have GH around 4-5 and KH 1. Ca 20/ Mg 5
Have tried to do my own agent with calcium sulfate, magnesium sulfate and sodium bicarbonate. Maybe it's just me, but I think this make prepared water a bit milky, even a day after 😕
Brightwell aquatics Calcion and Magnesion sounds very interested, maybe I'll give it a try, can you advise what's the best place to buy them online?
Thanks again guys 👍
I don't keep any shrimps in the tank I'm talking about. Only fish species from South America, so they like soft and acidic water.
I'm mineralising my water with Qualdrop plant GH+ at the moment, but would like to switch for something more widely available in the UK. Also been adding a bit of sodium bicarbonate to boost KH.
So at the moment I have GH around 4-5 and KH 1. Ca 20/ Mg 5
Have tried to do my own agent with calcium sulfate, magnesium sulfate and sodium bicarbonate. Maybe it's just me, but I think this make prepared water a bit milky, even a day after 😕
Brightwell aquatics Calcion and Magnesion sounds very interested, maybe I'll give it a try, can you advise what's the best place to buy them online?
Thanks again guys 👍
It sounds like you pretty much have it already sorted. I would just switch to Potassium Bicarbonate though, as adding sodium to a freshwater tank isn't typically recommended, and your plants can use the additional potassium. You can grab it cheaply from Amazon:
Amazon product ASIN B07663RH9N
As I say, you can use the pre-mixed branded liquids, but all they are doing is buying the same raw salts, and mixing them with water, and charging you for the privilege. if you look at the Brightwell Calcion:
Just grab a bag of Calcium Chloride:
Amazon product ASIN B00DRPKLIG(you can probably get it even cheaper if you shop around).
And make several times the volume of the Brightwell solution for a fraction of the cost. Again from the Brightwell page:
That's 150g of Calcium per litre, so for calcium Chloride that's about 819 grams per litre (if my maths is correct - @dw1305 will correct me if I'm wrong here). So the £16 500ml bottle of Brightwell Calcion will cost you around two quid to make yourself based on that Amazon price above.
Hi all,
Calculation bit
It would depend on the <"water of crystallization">, as well as anhydrous (CaCl2), you have the dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O) and the hexahydrate (CaCl2.6H20)
For anhydrous CaCl2, so we have a RMM of (40.1 + (35.5 * 2)) 111 and 40.1/111.1 = 36.1% calcium. For the hexahydrate you need to add on the water and you get 40.1/219.1 = 18.3% calcium, which I'm going to approximate to 1/2 as much calcium in the hexahydrate than there is in anhydrous CaCl2, at which point I can say you are right, but just to finish.........
So for CaCl2 it is 150/0.361 = 425.6 g of CaCl2 and for CaCl2.6H2O it is double that , and it is equal to .............. 819.6g.
Brightwell Calcion
Anhydrous calcium chloride is really soluble, so theoretically you can dissolve 745g of salt in 255ml of water (to make a 1000g one litre solution) at 20oC and the solubility of CaCl2.6H20 is 811g at 25oC, so I'm going to guess that they have a big vat of heated saturated calcium chloride solution and just decant a litre of that to create "Brightwell Aquatics Calcion".
As long as there is a buffer of undissolved salt in the bottom of the VAT, and the water is above 25oC, each volume drawn of will always have the requisite 150,000 ppm Ca.
cheers Darrel
Definitely right. Thousand milligrams in a gram and milligrams/L is the same unit as ppm.
Yes, that is right as well. If anyone wants the calculation it is below.
Calculation bit
It would depend on the <"water of crystallization">, as well as anhydrous (CaCl2), you have the dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O) and the hexahydrate (CaCl2.6H20)
For anhydrous CaCl2, so we have a RMM of (40.1 + (35.5 * 2)) 111 and 40.1/111.1 = 36.1% calcium. For the hexahydrate you need to add on the water and you get 40.1/219.1 = 18.3% calcium, which I'm going to approximate to 1/2 as much calcium in the hexahydrate than there is in anhydrous CaCl2, at which point I can say you are right, but just to finish.........
So for CaCl2 it is 150/0.361 = 425.6 g of CaCl2 and for CaCl2.6H2O it is double that , and it is equal to .............. 819.6g.
Brightwell Calcion
Anhydrous calcium chloride is really soluble, so theoretically you can dissolve 745g of salt in 255ml of water (to make a 1000g one litre solution) at 20oC and the solubility of CaCl2.6H20 is 811g at 25oC, so I'm going to guess that they have a big vat of heated saturated calcium chloride solution and just decant a litre of that to create "Brightwell Aquatics Calcion".
As long as there is a buffer of undissolved salt in the bottom of the VAT, and the water is above 25oC, each volume drawn of will always have the requisite 150,000 ppm Ca.
To be fair to them, the mark up on this isn't as bad as for some other products. I'll say 4kg of CaCl2 is about £10, so £2.50 a kilo and I'll say 819 g is a kilo, and 500 ml of "Calcion" retails for about £16.
cheers Darrel
okay okayyy to be fair I pay trade price... and it's convenient. But yes if I had anything more than 25l to remin each week I'd buy dry salts. Brightwell also sell Calcion and Magnesion dry (probably for too much haha)
Hi @Mrblo
I'm probably too late on this one but I think it's important to point out that some so-called RO remineralizers only increase GH and KH. They increase hardness and buffer the water against pH swings. Full remineralizers add a cocktail of additional minerals such as sodium, potassium, fluoride and sulphate. I use Tropic Marin Re-Mineral Tropic, which is a dry salts product.
JPC
I'm probably too late on this one but I think it's important to point out that some so-called RO remineralizers only increase GH and KH. They increase hardness and buffer the water against pH swings. Full remineralizers add a cocktail of additional minerals such as sodium, potassium, fluoride and sulphate. I use Tropic Marin Re-Mineral Tropic, which is a dry salts product.
JPC
Im not sure they are adding them intentionally though John. Sulphate has to be added with the Magnesium (MgSO4), sodium if they are presumably using some sodium bicarbonate in the mix for the KH, and potassium because they are using some potassium carbonate/bicarbonate (also for the KH). They are the simply the result of them using the standard salts we all have access to, not the addition of other mixtures of salts and chemical.
The only exception to that being the Flouride. I’m not sure where the fluoride is added or why - it’s effect on inverts and fish is a considered a negative one from what I have read:
Fluoride toxicity to aquatic organisms: a review - PubMed
Published data on the toxicity of fluoride (F-) to algae, aquatic plants, invertebrates and fishes are reviewed. Aquatic organisms living in soft waters may be more adversely affected by fluoride pollution than those living in hard or seawaters because the bioavailability of fluoride ions is...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Hi @jaypeecee!
Thanks for participation, every advice is appreciated! I don't have a problem to pay a bit extra for somebody do do right product for me.
Therefore I'm still searching, and problem is, I can't find anything that really meets my needs 🙁
This one that you recommended, rises KH way to much for me, similar to JBL Aquadur.
Another problem is: they don't share information about Ca/Mg ratio. I've done this mistake before, buying Preis Diskus.....
Really great agent, but has one "little" problem Ca 1 / Mg 4. Exactly reversed ratio!
Vimi packs way to much K and microelements causing overdosing + Ca 2 / Mg1 which I don't really like.... etc... etc
I have found one just right for me, it's called Growise Ca4 / Mg1 and GH/KH 2/1 - so I could set just GH4 KH2 and be happy....
But unable to buy in UK, and I can't be bothered to import it from Poland 😕
Thanks for participation, every advice is appreciated! I don't have a problem to pay a bit extra for somebody do do right product for me.
Therefore I'm still searching, and problem is, I can't find anything that really meets my needs 🙁
This one that you recommended, rises KH way to much for me, similar to JBL Aquadur.
Another problem is: they don't share information about Ca/Mg ratio. I've done this mistake before, buying Preis Diskus.....
Really great agent, but has one "little" problem Ca 1 / Mg 4. Exactly reversed ratio!
Vimi packs way to much K and microelements causing overdosing + Ca 2 / Mg1 which I don't really like.... etc... etc
I have found one just right for me, it's called Growise Ca4 / Mg1 and GH/KH 2/1 - so I could set just GH4 KH2 and be happy....
But unable to buy in UK, and I can't be bothered to import it from Poland 😕
Only just noticed this thread, the IFC calculator has the ability to clone a few reminerilising agents and do bespoke remineriliser to you own prescription and reports the kH and gH of the resultant mix. So you can just toss in the dry salts during the filling stage of the WC.
Hi @Mrblo
OK, that's fair enough. Perhaps I'd scanned your post too hastily. I hadn't realized that you were aiming for a specific requirement. Are your needs geared towards the plants, other tank inhabitants or both? I don't know if one of the other Tropic Marin formulations would better suit your requirements:
www.tropic-marin.com
Don't worry - I'm not on commission!
I have found Tropic Marin to be very helpful - my discussions have always been with Mr Balling whose name is well-known in reefkeeping.
JPC
OK, that's fair enough. Perhaps I'd scanned your post too hastily. I hadn't realized that you were aiming for a specific requirement. Are your needs geared towards the plants, other tank inhabitants or both? I don't know if one of the other Tropic Marin formulations would better suit your requirements:
Products A-Z | Tropic Marin
www.tropic-marin.com
Don't worry - I'm not on commission!
I have found Tropic Marin to be very helpful - my discussions have always been with Mr Balling whose name is well-known in reefkeeping.
JPC
Hi all,
You would still need to add <"some dKH">. but you could do that via food grade (E501) potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3). I would aim for 2dKH so the potassium addition (K) would be negligible, and K is a macronutrient that the plants need a lot of.
cheers Darrel
What about <"Seachem Equilibrium">? I'm not a <"Seachem fan normally">, but it would <"add dGH"> and is designed for planted tanks.
You would still need to add <"some dKH">. but you could do that via food grade (E501) potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3). I would aim for 2dKH so the potassium addition (K) would be negligible, and K is a macronutrient that the plants need a lot of.
cheers Darrel
I was thinking about seachem, problem is: It's already contains a lot of potassium. To get GH4-5 I need add 16g of agent to 50L of water. Regarding to Nutrient Dosing Calculator it will contain 62 ppm K, right away 😳
To get 2dKH i need add bout 3,5g potassium bicarbonate to this, it's another 27ppm. That's about 90ppm in total, not even mention potassium from KNO3 and KH2PO4
My plan at the moment is: I'll do it from dry salts Ca, Mg, K for plants and will add API stress coat, or something else beneficial for fish.
Cheers 👍
If you select the Bespoke reimin in the IFC calculator Target calculatorI was thinking about seachem, problem is: It's already contains a lot of potassium. To get GH4-5 I need add 16g of agent to 50L of water. Regarding to Nutrient Dosing Calculator it will contain 62 ppm K, right away 😳
To get 2dKH i need add bout 3,5g potassium bicarbonate to this, it's another 27ppm. That's about 90ppm in total, not even mention potassium from KNO3 and KH2PO4
My plan at the moment is: I'll do it from dry salts Ca, Mg, K for plants and will add API stress coat, or something else beneficial for fish.
Cheers 👍
View attachment 160697
View attachment 160698
and set the targets for the elements and kH but choosing different salts and ratios of those salts the calculator will give you all your yields. We didnt do it so it targeted gH so you will have to play with the different ppms of any Ca or Mg salts it will tally up the kH and gH. If you choose to use any Ca or Mg nitrites you will have to add a NO3 target and select relative salt and the gH will be worked out and any Ca/Mg will be taken into account in your Ca/Mg targets or if it over shoots your target no other Ca/Mg will be addedIn the DIY calculator just select remineraliser
then add the grams of each salt you use and it will tally up the ppms kH/gH
Thank you, your prise goes along way. 😁
Last edited: