Why can't I grow moss...?!

[JAX3000]

Hi, I have tried and tried! My dog sized piece of wood look ridiculous without a good covering of moss all over the top, but it just won't seem to grow...! It did once, but I had horrible hair algae, so I sprayed liquid carbon directly all over it and in a day ALL the moss died! Lesson learned, never spot treat with LC on moss! But since then I've tried again and again, but it just turns dark and falls apart...! Any idea what I'm doing wrong please....?

(I use super glue, as I couldn't tie it to the whole piece due to the shape of the wood) I doubt this is relevant, but just in case. I have tried Java Moss and Xmas Moss - all dead. I have 2 stones covered in moss at the bottom. One each Java and xmas. Both have grown, but both look horrible...!

I am injecting Co2, I use EI ferts and liquid carbon to keep the dredded hair algae from returning...

Please help me...! 🙂

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[john dory]

Could it be the liquid carbon?

 

[zozo]

My experience with hair algea and moss is only one thing that can help. Loads of shrimps and sciccors.. Spot treating with peroxide is more effective than liquid carbon on moss. But moss don't realy like both, peroxide is little more effective in very small quantities like 0.5 ml or less.. Take it easy on them if you put on to much you'll burn the crap out of it. And it'll take a few days for the algae to die.. So have patience.. But if you do not fight the root cause, algea come back as hard as you kill it. Back to square 1 runnng in circles.

Oh the advice loads of shrimps was one from another ukaps member in the algea section.. 😉

 

[EnderUK]

Another thing is temperature, if you have your tempature above 26 for those Rams that might be the issue depending on what moss you're trying to grow. My SAE when I had them also liked nibbling on the moss I was trying to grow. If the moss is stuck tight you can pretty much trim down to the rock or the wood and it will grow back even if there doesn't seemed to be any moss left.

 

[JAX3000]

Thanks.
That must be it! The liquid carbon is killing the moss, but before I used liquid carbon, I had lovely moss, covered in hair algae...!
Sadly, if I kept shrimps, they'd either be eaten by or hide from the Golden Wonder Panchax, so they'd never dare to venture up to the top where I need them, or if they did they wouldn't live long enough to be any use...! I bought Siamese Algae Eaters (proper ones) and they had little or no impact on the Hair Algae.
Now the hair algae's all gone (for months), what if I start again with fresh new moss from the shop and stop the liquid carbon, would it just return...? I mean where would it come from? Also, what if I just ease off on the liquid carbon? I currently double dose (I know, what a dumbo...!)
Peroxide is something I hadn't considered. Could I just kill it off every so often with peroxide? It's easy for me to spot treat the problem area, as it's exposed at every water change.
Is there an alternative to moss...? I need something to cover the whole top of that huge bit of wood... Small Anubias, Liverwort...?
Sorry, so many questions...!!!

 

[JAX3000]

Thanks EnderUK, The temp is 25.
I think what's left looks pretty dead, but do you think I should trim the moss back now and stop the liquid carbon and see what happens...?

 

[Mick.Dk]

Lomariopsis lineata is quite tolerant about strong/low light (your wood-top is pretty close to light-source) and will tolerate rather high temperature.
Tolerance for glutaraldehyde (that's what Liquid Carbon is) is a bit tricky for this, too.

All the SA's I've ever had(and that is a lot!!) was notorious moss-eaters. They prefere Vesicularia (x-mas, weeping) before Taxiphyllum (java, spiky, flame), but both are eaten, sooner or later to some degree. I don't find them effective at BBA, but they are very, very good at stringy, green algae.

 

[zozo]

If it is exposed every water change you could use such a 30ml mini pump spray bottle filled with peroxide.. And when exposed spray a little on everything exposed, in time you've refilled the tank it's on there for maybe 5 minutes (?) Don't need to empty the complete bottle every time, enough is enough. I have a tank 2 times smaller than you have and i do 3 water changes with one 30ml bottle.. 😉 Doing that doesn't mean the algea will disapear over night.. Especialy hair algea are hardy and not as easy to kill as others. But it damages the algea and gives them a hard time to recover.

You still can use easy carbo. but do not over dose it, normal dosis also induce plantgrowth and therefore prevents algea growth in the long run. Overdose easy carbo always will damage as will overdose of peroxide. Both compounts damage organic cell structure, the only thing is algea grows so fast and has a kind of more weak celstructure then most plants. So the plants can take and recover from this little damage where algea can't, except if you overdose to frequent you'll also damage the plants to much before it already recovered. You just can't keep doing that.

If you pay attention to biological history you'll notice that algea is probably one of the first plant like lifeforms ever developed. Next come the mosses and ferns and so on and under the proper conditions they all can grow equaly fast. The only culprit is 🙂 the right conditions for algea is not the right condition for mosses. ferns and plants. Algea are actualy a very primitive lifeform needing less proper conditions and because of that survived the rigors of time. Because it's growing so fast it survives not by strenght but by numbers. So it is as easily killed as it is grown. There for focussing and eliminating the root cause of the algea outbrake is most efficient.. Because if you don't do that it'll grow back as fast as you kill it. Once moss is infested whit enough algea there is no way to kill it without killing the moss also..

Now seeing the picture of your tank, the root cause problably is - Light periode / intencity vs. plantmass vs. fert regime vs. lifestock.

Do your self a favor and skip to reading the algea section at ukaps.. You'll find answers there 😉 Your question is not how do i grow moss?? Your question is "How do i stop algea growth??"

 

[JAX3000]

Lomariopsis lineata is quite tolerant about strong/low light (your wood-top is pretty close to light-source) and will tolerate rather high temperature.
Tolerance for glutaraldehyde (that's what Liquid Carbon is) is a bit tricky for this, too.

All the SA's I've ever had(and that is a lot!!) was notorious moss-eaters. They prefere Vesicularia (x-mas, weeping) before Taxiphyllum (java, spiky, flame), but both are eaten, sooner or later to some degree. I don't find them effective at BBA, but they are very, very good at stringy, green algae.

I like the look of this! Thanks. I think I'll definitely incorporate this...

 

[JAX3000]

If it is exposed every water change you could use such a 30ml mini pump spray bottle filled with peroxide.. And when exposed spray a little on everything exposed, in time you've refilled the tank it's on there for maybe 5 minutes (?) Don't need to empty the complete bottle every time, enough is enough. I have a tank 2 times smaller than you have and i do 3 water changes with one 30ml bottle.. 😉 Doing that doesn't mean the algea will disapear over night.. Especialy hair algea are hardy and not as easy to kill as others. But it damages the algea and gives them a hard time to recover.

You still can use easy carbo. but do not over dose it, normal dosis also induce plantgrowth and therefore prevents algea growth in the long run. Overdose easy carbo always will damage as will overdose of peroxide. Both compounts damage organic cell structure, the only thing is algea grows so fast and has a kind of more weak celstructure then most plants. So the plants can take and recover from this little damage where algea can't, except if you overdose to frequent you'll also damage the plants to much before it already recovered. You just can't keep doing that.

If you pay attention to biological history you'll notice that algea is probably one of the first plant like lifeforms ever developed. Next come the mosses and ferns and so on and under the proper conditions they all can grow equaly fast. The only culprit is 🙂 the right conditions for algea is not the right condition for mosses. ferns and plants. Algea are actualy a very primitive lifeform needing less proper conditions and because of that survived the rigors of time. Because it's growing so fast it survives not by strenght but by numbers. So it is as easily killed as it is grown. There for focussing and eliminating the root cause of the algea outbrake is most efficient.. Because if you don't do that it'll grow back as fast as you kill it. Once moss is infested whit enough algea there is no way to kill it without killing the moss also..

Now seeing the picture of your tank, the root cause problably is - Light periode / intencity vs. plantmass vs. fert regime vs. lifestock.

Do your self a favor and skip to reading the algea section at ukaps.. You'll find answers there 😉 Your question is not how do i grow moss?? Your question is "How do i stop algea growth??"

I'm very grateful for this. I'm so pleased to see there's still hope for me to successfully grow moss on this wood. It's been tormenting me for ages. I will read back through all this and go and get learning about algae control rather than just constantly fire fighting by curing rather than preventing. If all else fails though, I need an alternative to shrimps! And if I can use lower dose liquid carbon and / or peroxide without destroying the moss- that's good news...!!! Thanks }:0)