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white spot? or some other parasite?

louis_last

Member
Joined
23 Nov 2008
Messages
437
Location
Edinburgh / Dunbar - Scotland
About a month ago I finally got ahold of some sundanio axelrodi that I had been after for a while, I posted about them because one of them was in extremely poor health when I got them and died very quickly. It was a male and appeared to have some kind of parasite and/or fungal infection that manifested as three white spots that looked maybe slightly fluffy, two on its head and one on the side of its body. It also had signs of finrot on its tail. I was deliberating whether to treat them all with esha 2000 but opted against it as the rest all seemed to be in good health. I decided to monitor them closely in quarantine and only treat them if they showed signs of disease as I have heard this species can be very sensitive.
That's been an ongoing process and they have fattened up, coloured up and grown since I got them onto a quality diet in the correct conditions but now somethings cropped up that seems a red flag. About two weeks ago I noticed that one of them, another male, appeared to have developed a white spot on its lower lip, this time there was no sign of any fluffiness and it looked to me like a classic ich/white spot based on limited experience and pictures vailable online.
The affected fish was eating fine and didn't seem unhappy or stressed and a couple of days later the white spot was gone. Although the spots eventually rupturing is typical of white spot I wasn't certain that's what this was and continued to monitor. Now, about another two weeks on, I noticed today that again one of the males had this time two white spots on its lower lip, one on either side of its mouth in a perfectly symmetrical configuration. I don't know if it's the same fish or a different male but it seems reasonable to assume that it's the same one. This time though one of the white spots has dissappeared/ruptured/fallen off just over the course of the day and where it had two evident when the lights came on today, now there is only one on one side of its mouth.
Does this sound like white spot to any more experienced fishkeepers here? I've been lucky and not had to deal with whitespot since I had goldfish when I was a kid but I thought it was much more prolific than this and that it would have spread faster and more aggressively rather than presenting as just three tiny spots on one or maybe two fish of several over the course of a month. The male or males have shown no signs of discomfort or stress either, even today with the spots at either side of its mouth it was eating fine and displaying vibrant colour. I also haven't seen any sign of it or any of the others flicking themselves against hardscape. I've been keeping them at 23c which is the cooler end of their temperature range, could this explain the slow progression of the disease if it's whitespot/ich?
I have esha exit and esha 2000 I can treat them with but I'm hoping there's someone here that can reassure me that tiny and delicate fish like these can survive such strong medication. Is the exit also totally plant safe? Obviously the fish come first but I have some rare mosses in the tank the suspect fish are in that I'd prefer not to kill, I could remove these but they would presumably still be carrying the parasite, does anyone know how long can it survive without a fish host?
 
Posting a picture will be helpful.

Cheers,
Michael
This species is too small and fast moving for the only camera I have available to me right now to focus on them, I just get blurry flashes of blue. But the second white dot has also gone this morning. I'm wondering if this is actually some kind of copepod that's attacking the fish, or rarely managing to cling onto their mouths somehow in the process of being eaten.
Does anybody know roughly how long the spots associated with white spot/ich are supposed to be visible for before they rupture? Everything I'm reading seems to suggest that at 23c the white spot lifecycle is measured in days and it seems I should be seeing a worse outbreak by now if this really is whitespot.
I've carried out a large water change and done some gravel vaccuming this morning and found another post here where someone reported successfully treating sundanio for whitespot so maybe I should treat them with esha exit just to be safe?
 
There's a lot of pretty contradictory information out there about whitespot too with some sources saying that it's always present at background levels in a tank and only becomes a problem when fish are stressed or their immune systems compromised and others saying the opposite. Also a lot of people claiming that raising temperatures alone can be sufficient to cure it and others saying this is absolutely not the case.
 
Well a year on and these fish have grown considerably and appear to be in excellent health however some of them still periodically get these odd white spots around their mouths and only around their mouths. There is no sign of whatever the spots are ever having spread to any other fish in the tank and nor do they appear to interfere with feeding. They tend to last a few days and then disappear. I'm very puzzled by what they could be as there seems to be a positive correlation between fish health and these white spots. It seems to be the larger and more robust fish exclusively that get them. I will try to get a video that shows the spots.
 
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Hi all,
That is good to know.

I wonder if they are to do with being in spawning condition? I know that male Cyprinids <"get tubercles on the head"> when they are in ready to spawn - <"Nuptial tubercles - Wikipedia">.

cheers Darrel
I have been having this exact same thought but I didn't know they were called nuptial tubercles! this could also explain why they are always in exactly the same place even on different individuals.
 
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