Sudden Plant Deficiency, Diatoms or Something Else?

[PAYN3Y]

Hi all,

I just noticed there was another recent similar thread to this recently but I'd like your opinion on what may be going on in my tank.

The tank is now 8/9 weeks old and up until last week all of my plants look healthy and I had no real signs of algae. I have constantly been moving the co2 atomiser around in the tank trying to get good distribution without having to have it on the front left of the tank as I see in most videos and pictures with a similar setup. I feel I have to inject a lot of co2 to get my drop checker a nice bright green. My bubble counter is uncountable but I'd say at least 10bps and I went through 2KG of co2 in around 4 weeks. This may be due to surface agitation but I don't see why this would be higher than other similar tanks.

Anyhow, I did a lot of research on this and up until yesterday I thought this was just diatoms, which seems to be a normal part of the cycle. On further inspection I have noticed lots of my leaves wrinkling, the buce is shedding a few leaves, the HC Verticalata looks like it's being eaten and my anubius seems to be covered in diatoms.

This started after I made some adjustments. I moved a few plants and didn't do a water change until 2 days later (probably a big mistake). I also moved the co2 to a new location but realised I'd knocked the needle valve and the tank probably didn't receive enough co2 for 3-4 days. After this I noticed some algae so I've manually tried to remove it and done a couple of huge water changes. The algae is still coming back and now my plants seems to be suffering.

My daily tank cycle is

11am - co2 on (approx 10bps)
2:30-3:00pm light fades from 0-100%
8:15pm co2 and powerhead off
9:00-9:30pm light fades from 100-0%

I dose the Aquascaper Liquid Plant Food at 10ml a day. The packaging says 20ml a day but everything been ok up until now. Should I increase this?

I have attached a picture of my latest water readings. I do not have a PH pen so have been unable to do a full PH profile for the co2. Perhaps I need to invest in this.

Looking at these pictures, do any of you have any thoughts what my issue may be?

Here is a full tank shot

 

[Edvet]

I'd say both diatoms and insufficient CO2 for your light.

 

[ian_m]

Mechanical damage to plants and algae are confirming symptoms of insufficient or poor distribution of CO2 for your possible rather excessive light levels.

Reduce light levels to say 50% and max 4-6 hours for a month or two whilst sorting your CO2 levels and distribution.

You haven't stated your tank volume (I get through 2Kg FE in 100 days with green/yellow drop checker) and what your filtration is ?

 

[PAYN3Y]

I'd say both diatoms and insufficient CO2 for your light.

Thanks. That's what I suspected.

The co2 has been rather difficult to get right. Below is a video from around a week ago. I found the amount of co2 bubbles a complete distraction for the tank and tried switching it's position to the back left. This resulted in poor distribution which I think may have led to these issues.



I've since had to move it back and adjusted the powerhead position to try and stop the bubbles being such a distraction. This has worked to some degree and my drop checker is now considerably brighter green/yellow than in this video. Perhaps inline co2 would be a better option?

I think I need to just leave things alone, do lots of water changes and manually remove the diatoms for the moment. Hopefully things will begin the recover.

Mechanical damage to plants and algae are confirming symptoms of insufficient or poor distribution of CO2 for your possible rather excessive light levels.

Reduce light levels to say 50% and max 4-6 hours for a month or two whilst sorting your CO2 levels and distribution.

You haven't stated your tank volume (I get through 2Kg FE in 100 days with green/yellow drop checker) and what your filtration is ?

Tank is an Aquascaper 900 so approximately 200 litres. Filter is a Biomaster 600 and the powerhead is 1600l/hour.

I've been constantly trying to find a position for the co2 where the bubbles are not an eyesore and stay in the water column for long enough. I seem to have more visible co2 bubbles than other tanks I look at, yet I'm having issues with levels and distribution. 30 days for a 2kg FE seems excessive to me.

 

[ian_m]

Tank is an Aquascaper 900 so approximately 200 litres. Filter is a Biomaster 600 and the powerhead is 1600l/hour.

I would think your filtration rate maybe too low for high tech, especially as we know you have CO2 issues. Yes I know you have a 1600l/hr power head, but powerheads do tend to be very directional and don't generally help get CO2 water spread all around the tank. Try for a while with power head under your lily pipe outlet, to try and enhance its flow.

I get through 0.016gr CO2 per litre per hour for my tank. That's 2000 gr CO2 / 100 days / 180 litres / 7 hours -> 0.016.

Yours is 2000gr / 30 / 200 / 8 -> 0.042 gr per litre per hour, about 2.5 times my rate. Somethings wrong somewhere. I would suggest a leak somewhere.

 

[PAYN3Y]

I'm struggling to agree it's the filtration. Pretty much every Aquascaper 900 that either George Farmer or Aquarium Gardens have setup are running the exact same filter and Lilly Pipe set. They don't even use an additional powerhead which I added due to not wanting to place my diffuser opposite the outlet for aesthetic reasons.

I'm only on my second FE so I guess I'll have to see how long this one lasts. It's possible that there was a leak with the first one or that the bottle was only partially filled. I do however think my bubble count is considerably higher than what I've seen on other peoples. This is partially why I don't see why I have low co2 issues.

Like I mentioned, I have had quite a healthy looking tank and good plant growth until I made some changes the other week. Could it just be that I've destabilised the levels? Would plants show signs off a deficiency that quickly?

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Hey there,

I'm sorry you are having a few issues with your tank and there are certainly a few things that leap out as areas to look at.

Your level of co2 injected into a tank and the amount being distributed perfectly that the plants can access it are 2 very different things. I can assure you that aside from there things that suggest poor distribution, bucephaldra dropping leaves in a high tech tank is absolutely a lack of co2 availability for the light level.

In tank diffusers are without a doubt less effective than inlines in tanks bigger than 60cm. That's not to say it can't be done, just it takes a better understanding.

Constant changes are the biggest issue here, every time you make a change by moving powerheads and diffuser the co2 efficiency will change, meaning the plants also have to adapt to the new availability. Go back to the classic set up of diffuser on the opposite side as the outlet, put your drop checker lower down on the side of the outlet which will likely be the lowest point of co2.

Reduce your lighting to say 50% and stick to it for the next 4 weeks, forget about bubbles being unsightly (they dhould actually be helping see distrubution) and focus on getting the tank stable and plant health.

Increase water changes as much as possible, dont focus on the diatoms as they will pass but keep the tank clean and consistent. Find a co2 level your happy with, ideally with a ph profile and again let it be, it's tough not to fiddle buts it's the worst thing you can do. You should only get your hands wet during water change.

All the best.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[PAYN3Y]

Hey there,

I'm sorry you are having a few issues with your tank and there are certainly a few things that leap out as areas to look at.

Your level of co2 injected into a tank and the amount being distributed perfectly that the plants can access it are 2 very different things. I can assure you that aside from there things that suggest poor distribution, bucephaldra dropping leaves in a high tech tank is absolutely a lack of co2 availability for the light level.

In tank diffusers are without a doubt less effective than inlines in tanks bigger than 60cm. That's not to say it can't be done, just it takes a better understanding.

Constant changes are the biggest issue here, every time you make a change by moving powerheads and diffuser the co2 efficiency will change, meaning the plants also have to adapt to the new availability. Go back to the classic set up of diffuser on the opposite side as the outlet, put your drop checker lower down on the side of the outlet which will likely be the lowest point of co2.

Reduce your lighting to say 50% and stick to it for the next 4 weeks, forget about bubbles being unsightly (they dhould actually be helping see distrubution) and focus on getting the tank stable and plant health.

Increase water changes as much as possible, dont focus on the diatoms as they will pass but keep the tank clean and consistent. Find a co2 level your happy with, ideally with a ph profile and again let it be, it's tough not to fiddle buts it's the worst thing you can do. You should only get your hands wet during water change.

All the best.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Thanks @Iain Sutherland. That's useful information. The only thing I cannot do is put the diffuser directly opposite the outlet as my 2 year old will almost certainly pull the pipes when I'm not looking. I can place it further to the back of the opposite side but when I tried that previously I was losing a fair few bubbles to the surface as the flow wasn't picking them up - hence buying the powerhead. I could place the powerhead beneath the lilly pipe as @ian_m mentioned and then try the diffuser at the back left hand side. Perhaps this would provide enough current to move them around correctly.

Having said all that, I do feel that the current setup I have now is moving the co2 around much more efficiently. did you get chance to look at the video posted above? I completely agree that the amount of changes I have made recently are my biggest issue.

Would you recommend I move to inline diffusers? I have no problem doing so, just know nothing about it at the moment.

I will lower the light levels for a few weeks as you recommend.

 

[ian_m]

Would you recommend I move to inline diffusers? I have no problem doing so, just know nothing about it at the moment.

Yes much superior way of getting CO2 into the water. I have used an UP 22mm one on my filter outlet since 2012. Only cleaned it once .

 

[PAYN3Y]

Is this what I'd need for my Biomaster?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/JBL-63339-...535635039&sr=8-2&keywords=inline+co2+diffuser

 

[ian_m]

Yes that will do.

There are plenty of other makes.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/qanvee-m1-out-tank-co2-atomizer.50453/

 

[HiNtZ]

A point I will make is that your bubble counter sounds too small for the size of tank. That's why you're counting 10BPS. Grab yourself a bottle type bubble counter with the 4mm tubing as an outlet. I'll bet you're down to 2-3 bps without adjusting anything else.

Secondly, 2KG of CO2 on a tank that size in 4 weeks is excessive. I would check for leaks.

 

[PAYN3Y]

A point I will make is that your bubble counter sounds too small for the size of tank. That's why you're counting 10BPS. Grab yourself a bottle type bubble counter with the 4mm tubing as an outlet. I'll bet you're down to 2-3 bps without adjusting anything else.

Secondly, 2KG of CO2 on a tank that size in 4 weeks is excessive. I would check for leaks.

I have been using the small one supplied with the CO2Art regulator but it’s very hard to count. I did notice that bubbles entering the Neo Diffuser were at a much lower rate.

My inline diffuser will be coming tomorrow which also has a built in bubble counter. I’ll see how that compares.

Thanks.

 

[HiNtZ]

I have been using the small one supplied with the CO2Art regulator but it’s very hard to count. I did notice that bubbles entering the Neo Diffuser were at a much lower rate.

My inline diffuser will be coming tomorrow which also has a built in bubble counter. I’ll see how that compares.

Thanks.

Ahhh yeah, I have the exact same one with my CO2 Art reg. It now sits empty and the pipe goes into a bottle with 4mm tubing. Soooo much easier to tune the gas.

Good luck!

 

[PAYN3Y]

So I've turned the light down to fade from 70% to 50% over the photo period and done a water change every 2 days. Things are starting to look better already and the ottos I bought last week have been doing a good job.

I've received my JBL inline diffuser but haven't fitted it as my drop checker is now a good colour at all corners of the tank so I didn't want to disrupt it straight away. The problem I see is that it's going to be very difficult to mount the diffuser vertically. The pipes come out of the filter at 45 degrees and the out of the cabinet horizontally. I'm not sure how to get it mounted vertically and it seems the bubble counter will just spill all of the water if it's on it's side. Any ideas?