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Soil Substrate or Dirted Tank - A How to Guide

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Troy, thank you for pointing me to plutonow's journal, interesting. In my case the thickness of lower layer is about 2-4 cm, I've put ~4L of mixture to the standard 60L (60*30cm). I've used numbers from your tutorial as base point.
 
Alexander Belchenko said:
Troy, thank you for pointing me to plutonow's journal, interesting. In my case the thickness of lower layer is about 2-4 cm, I've put ~4L of mixture to the standard 60L (60*30cm). I've used numbers from your tutorial as base point.
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Both will work well, the figures in the tutorial are really just guidelines anyway...have fun😉
faizal said:
Cheers Troi...will add another tube then.
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Good luck Faizal, have you posted pics anywhere?
 
My 110 litre tank is set up as per the opening post with red clay mixed into a 50-50 mix of the westland aquatic soil and peat. All my plants are doing well (sorry I'm no botanist and hopeless with plant names for the most part - I will look them up if nec.) except for echinodorus ozelots leopard which are melting badly. Initially I thought this might be adjustment melt from being completely submerged but unlike the other plants they show no signs of recovering. Obviously I'm missing something they need. I am considering using a low dose of EI salts in the water column to see if I can pull them round. Could someone please walk me through how much and how often?

I have an EI starter pack . . . and I've read of folks here using 1/10 dose or less frequency or both. In fact having read 30 or 40 pages of posts about EI dosing (hunting for info about non-CO2 tanks) over the last couple of days, my brain is in meltdown . . . Would be good to know what the latest wisdom is on what EI dose per litre is optimal and whether this dose presumes the standard 50% water changes are being done or not? For example I was considering doing a full EI dose for the tank volume, but doing big water changes for a few weeks to get them (the ozelots) established . . . then slowly back off. I don't need or want hi-tech style massive growth, slow, steady and healthy is my goal. Of course without CO2 injection the full dose would be pretty pointless - though thanks to Clive at least I'm no longer scared it would do actual harm!

Another complication (or possibly simplification!) is that because we're unexpectedly moving house this tank has never had fish added. It was just ready to stock when we got the news . . . because there's therefore no fish waste going in as fertiliser I'm guessing I'll need to dose the water column sooner or later for all the plants. Mini duckweed and frogbit is going crazy - I did even consider removing a lot of it out of concern that such "aerially advantaged" plants would be out-competing the slower growing plants, as well as obviously blocking a fair amount of light from reaching down to the substrate.

That said, my (somewhat confused admittedly) understanding is that too much light triggers accelerated consumption of nutrients, making the problem worse if the tank is already nutrient deficient? Or maybe (given that most plants are doing OK) there's something more specific to echinodorus ozelot I can target? I'm also wondering if as I've also read in Walstad's book, its just about accepting that certain plants just won't ever do well in this particular tank . . . but given the level of ignorance I bring to bear that feels like cop out at this stage.
Thanks
 
I've never grown E. ozelot so I can't comment specifically, although all the Echinodorus spp. I've grown low-energy have gone ballistic.
But I'd definitely go with the fertz dosing as per tutorial under the heading - Inorganic Nutrient Dosing - you could also try some root tabs.
E.ozelot is supposed to be tolerant of low-light, but you could try thinning out your floaters as well and see if that helps.
If I were you I'd start an individual thread with this you may get more responses and help.
And/or you could pm Mick.DK he's likely to be able to give you a more definitive response.
 
JMorgan said:
except for echinodorus ozelots leopard which are melting badly.
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My entire tank with newly purchased plants melted when I setup a soil tank a few years ago. I had to act fast and I found out that removing all melted parts leaving nothing of the damaged tissue helped the plants, otherwise they melted down inclusive of the root system. From the bunches of plants I was left with one or two stalks per species from which I slowly regrew back the tank to full health. Even an anubias plant melted completely and I could not save that one. I replaced it with another and it was just fine. So I wouldn't be too fast to judge what can and what can not do well in a soil tank. Perhaps that plant was either grown emersed and its finding it hard to adapt, or else, but it doesn't mean it won't recover or another plant of the same type wont' do well. Make sure it's not light related as some of my various plants recovered when they got placed under better illuminated part of the tank.
 
Home Bargains are selling Coco compost £1.89 add water it makes 50litres, would this be suitable substrate it has a low Ph. My concern is adding it with soft or very soft tap water,?
 
PARAGUAY said:
Coco compost
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I was wondering about this too, still got a bag in the shed.. It's completely inert and contains only fibers from crushed coconut shells.. I grew potted plants on it and it grows plants like crazy because it is very light and roots can penetrate without much restriction.. Usualy is used as addition to loosen dirt soils.. I remeber 15 years back when it slowly was becoming more popular you realy had to make sure you'd buy buffered coco fiber, because this stuff has the propperty of absorbing and holding high amounts of magnesium, so if not buffered, it will suck all magnisium out the fertilizer till it's completely saturated before it gives magnisium back. But today all coco fiber to be found in the garden centres is pre buffered..

I have no idea how this stuff will hold permanently submersed, i suspect it becomes a mess, because it is very light in weight..
 
It is very light weight and the type I've used for potted plants is fairly fine grained and homogeneous...I suspect that in an aquarium the potential for mess is huge, even with the use of a soil retainer..
 
Thanks for your replies, tried to find out a bit as said is a good soil improver and seems a alternative to spagnhum moss but the author is a bit vague in the article I found ,so giving it a miss,great value for terrestrial gardening though,seems like something like orchids would do well in
 
For m low tech NON CO2 tank's, I use daily Estimative index dose for my size tank once a week. with water changes maybe every three week's.
Substrate vary's from plain gavel in one, to plain sand in another, to mixture of plain topsoil/peat/cat litter. (last tank mentioned topsoil/peat/cat litter does best).
Plant's are easy .low light to moderate light.
Did add Fe DTPA in addition to CSM+B, for the Iron in CSM+B (EDTA) did not seem to work as well with my relatively hard water.(research suggested /DTPA)
So once a week ,a day after macro's,I add a bit of CSM+B and equal amount of DTPA.
 
Here is an rather complete explaination about this stuff, it goes to quite a complex process before it is ready to use as plant medium.. I never tried it in a tank only wondered how it would hold, but all this, kinda don't realy trust it as grow medium permantly submersed. No idea what it does to water column stability and livestock..
http://www.growstone.com/wp-content...ng-coco-coir-v2-Nate-Edits-Paula-Edits-v3.pdf

With growing terrestrial plants on it, you would need a special coco compatible fertilizer, also no idea in how far this is necessary and what it actualy contains to make it so different.Never realy studied the products label to compare with other fertilizer contents. But i guess the special coco fertilizer on the market is definitely not aimt for use in aquarium and probably contains a high nitrogene source from ammonium and or urea.

It is very popular in the hydroculture farming industry as rockwol replacement. If you use it as medium for ornamental plants you need to adress it the same as growing on ceramis or other backet clay pebble mediums..

I'm out of coco fertilizer, it is not realy for sale in the regular garden centres because it is mainly used as by products to loosen regular dirt soils. At the time i only can get it it in 5 liter cannister and it always comes in 2 compounds which can't be premixed. So i would need to buy 10 liter of that stuff.. That's a bit to much, ordering it from internet in smaller quantities the shipping coasts spoil the fun, so i skip it for now.. but i will definitely grow a wabi kusa on that stuff if i get my hands on smaller bottles again. I've experienced it grows plants much better than on rockwool or regular dirt soil and i'm very Wabu Curious..
 
I can only say that I'm using coco substrate as part of dirt/peat/sand mix in my current Dragon Stone aquascape. 3 months - so far so good. Can't say much different from regular amazonia-like substrate. Also, as suggested by this guide, I've added some crushed shells on top of dirt mix to prevent acid substrate.

From what I read in the linked document - there is possible problem with Ca. As I'm using re-mineralised RO+tap water, probably that partially fixed that buffering problem. At least I don't really detect Ca deficiency on new leaves.
 
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Great read and reference. Particularly interesting was the mineralisation of the soil and the ammonia released . Obviously best to let the soil settle for a week or two before adding fish. Cheers
 
Has anyone used vermiculite as an additive to the soil? Anyone consider this as a medium for holding nutrients or any other benefits?
 
Yes as Roy sais it'll float because of it's high porosity and all the traped air in it.. Eventualy it will sink but it stays very light and probably moves around with the slightest disturbance. I had kinda the same with buying a bag of akadama pumice mix, it 1 to 2mm small pumice grains mixed, same story most of it floats for days even weeks. But if you want to create some elevation, it's ideal for putting in a panty with some heavier stuff.. 🙂
 
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