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RO system, worth the "hassle"?

R

riioKen

Member
Joined
11 Sep 2023
Messages
72
Location
Italy
Hi guys, I've started a 90g tank and I would like to receive few opinions.

water params:
degassed pH: 8.0-8.1
straight out tap: 7.3-7.4
GH: 11
KH: 9.5 (this morning, used to be 8)
Ca - Mg: 66ppm - 8ppm

This tank is a Dutch style (around 21 different species) inspired tank, with lots of fast growers, both easy (hygrophila polysperma) and picky plants (Ludwigia Pantanal).

Right now I do something like between 20% to 30% wc weekly (for now, I'm doing it, 2 or even 3 times a week. But the idea is to settle to only 1 time per week).
As fertilizer i use Masterline golden daily at suggested dosage.

I'm thinking to switch to ro water because, I heard that too much calcium cause problems with other nutrients absorption, there are swing happening in KH right now, and in all honesty I hope that plants grow healthier due to softer water with less algae.

What do you think? Right now I don't have algae, the tank is 1 month and there are plant that are still adapting from vitro
 
Aqua sobriquet said:
Do you have access to rainwater? I collect rainwater in a water butt from a shed roof and mix it with some tap water and my plants grow really well. Only easy to grow plants like Anubias and Aquatic Moss etc.
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KH is increased in tap water, not tank

The water params stated above, are from tap water, not tank
 
You can blend your tap water with RO water to make it softer and less alkaline (= lower KH). In general, majority of plants will benefit from that.
Alternatively, you can use solely RO water and mineralize it. That requires some knowledge.
Anyway, softer water will not solve all possible problems. Namely, there's absolutely no substance in belief that soft water helps combat algae.
 
Andy Pierce said:
How are you measuring KH?
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Sera KH test kit
_Maq_ said:
Anyway, softer water will not solve all possible problems. Namely, there's absolutely no substance in belief that soft water helps combat algae.
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Yes I know, the idea is to have a more controlled environment. RO doesn't combat algae, I know.

The question is could RO water help combat algae due to a more controlled environment (more spot on nutrient dosage, binding ions, element precipitation and so on)?

For example, in my tank I don't have algae problem, but I have plants with curly/wavy leaves, probably due to lacking Mg (or Mn)

Idk exactly the ratio between Ca-Mg (probably around 9:1)
 
Andy Pierce said:
This should work fine, although it will have a resolution of 1 drop of reagent = 1 dKH unit, which is pretty granular. If you measure the KH of any given sample a couple of times, are you getting reproducible results?
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Yes the kit is working normally.
 
I have a container of 65L, this is around 23% WC, i can do it weekly (or 2 times x week) could it be enough with ferts like APT or Masterline?
 
riioKen said:
The question is could RO water help combat algae due to a more controlled environment (more spot on nutrient dosage, binding ions, element precipitation and so on)?
Click to expand...
From my experience (I use RO+DI water and mineralize 'scientifically') and from what I generally know, I would not support such an idea.
I believe algae reflect developments within microbial community as a whole. Organic pollution and all kind of change can bring instability which may manifest as algae proliferation. I suspect tightly controlled high-tech tanks are a bit more successful in preventing algae.
riioKen said:
For example, in my tank I don't have algae problem, but I have plants with curly/wavy leaves, probably due to lacking Mg (or Mn)
Click to expand...
This is exactly the kind of problems which can be solved by thoughtful mineralization. Still, we have to observe carefully what the plants say. Again, microbial community is a powerful yet seldom controlled variable here.
 
_Maq_ said:
From my experience (I use RO+DI water and mineralize 'scientifically') and from what I generally know, I would not support such an idea.
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I agree with you @_Maq_ , but I do believe being in full control of your WC water parameters takes the possibility of fluctuating water parameters (tap water can fluctuate quite a bit at least where I live) - a known algae trigger - out of the equation. Thoughts?

Cheers,
Michael
 
MichaelJ said:
Thoughts?
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The problem is, again, microbial community. The more I study our 'science', the more respect I feel for those invisible inhabitants of our tanks.
I do keep mineralization fairly constant in my tanks. The same counts for lighting, maintenance routine, etc. And then, in the beginning of summer, a disaster. Suddenly multiple species struggle and algae appear out of nowhere. Why? What has changed?
Temperature! I do not heat most of my tanks. And out of budgetary constraints, I do not heat my living space much during winter (18 °C is enough). Then, within a few weeks, temperature in my tanks increases by four to six degrees. Stability is lost. Oxygen budget in the first place, I suspect.
Microbes withhold a lot of nutrients. When they suddenly die-off and/or proliferate, oxygen & nutrient balance gets out of previous equilibrium. Anything can happen.

I do not indicate that every tank gets into difficulties every summer. This is just an example what can happen when one of the key variables changes. Yes, I'm always ready to affirm that consistent approach to mineralization is a good thing. I'm proud that my plants rarely show signs of nutrient imbalance. That's good. Unfortunately, that does not spare me from troubles caused by other variables.
 
So, except for some cases, where osmosis is needed (caridina or "toxic" tap water), this thread can be summed up in:
Osmosis water is "nice to have", its not needed, you can control your nutrients inside the tank, but plants can adapt to a wider range than we imagine.
 
Considering that i know nothing, and i plan to buy Arka myaqua 1900 (is it good? any suggestion?), how can i remineralize the water? can i use tap? (last report, 5 month ago, says 55ppm Ca and 5.3 Mg, but during the year it can raise to Ca 85 and Mg 9)
 
I’ve never bothered checking things like GH and KH, maybe I should? I’m a bit dubious about the accuracy of some test kits and they aren’t exactly cheap are they. Any recommendations?
 
GH and KH test aren't that bad, surely way better than pH test (liquid) and po4. But I have to admit that when I used to use KH test + pH for tuning CO2, I always had algae problem. Now, I aim to 1.2 - 1.3 pH drop from degassed water + yellowish drop checker, almost 0 algae and plants growing like weeds
 
_Maq_ said:
The problem is, again, microbial community. The more I study our 'science', the more respect I feel for those invisible inhabitants of our tanks.
I do keep mineralization fairly constant in my tanks. The same counts for lighting, maintenance routine, etc. And then, in the beginning of summer, a disaster. Suddenly multiple species struggle and algae appear out of nowhere. Why? What has changed?
Temperature! I do not heat most of my tanks. And out of budgetary constraints, I do not heat my living space much during winter (18 °C is enough). Then, within a few weeks, temperature in my tanks increases by four to six degrees. Stability is lost. Oxygen budget in the first place, I suspect.
Microbes withhold a lot of nutrients. When they suddenly die-off and/or proliferate, oxygen & nutrient balance gets out of previous equilibrium. Anything can happen.

I do not indicate that every tank gets into difficulties every summer. This is just an example what can happen when one of the key variables changes. Yes, I'm always ready to affirm that consistent approach to mineralization is a good thing. I'm proud that my plants rarely show signs of nutrient imbalance. That's good. Unfortunately, that does not spare me from troubles caused by other variables.
Click to expand...

I very much agree. As long as we keep things healthy stable we are in good shape. Of course, as with every system, our tanks are ultimately always subject to the 2nd law of thermodynamics if you will... any system always moves towards disorder or stays the same... if we are lucky...I suspect that's mostly to blame when we experience having a healthy tank for a long time, doing the same routine months or even years on end and then all of a sudden it unravels. It's probably the microbial communities that goes first, I suspect (old tank syndrome?). Maintaining the balance at the microbial level is probably the key to long term success more than anything else... The hobby needs to understand this better. Keeping maintenance, water parameters etc. stable is of course important but specific values - as long as they are sensible and stable - matters less IMO.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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