Return to the hobby - some advice required

[FrozenShivers]

I hope you’re luckier than I was, my Fluval 207 is noisier than my Biomaster 350 and has a lower flow rate.

I should hope it has a lower flow rate since it's rated much lower than the 350. 207 is rated 780 L/H, 250 900 L/H and 350 1100 L/H. My comparisons were between a 207 and a 250, not a 350. My 207 is quieter than my 250 with upgraded internals, never mind a 350. They're generally regarded as very quiet filters, I appreciate that for whatever reason that wasn't your experience - which is a shame.

Thanks for the info. Tank is in my bedroom, so noise is obviously a factor. I don't have limitless pockets and flow rate is also important, so the 407 wins on all 3. I've gone with the Aquael 300w inline heater and will be feeding Co2 inline also. I saw a lot of positive reviews on youtube for the FZONE FZ-0100 single stage regulator. I have read varying views on the likelihood and severity of end of tank dump, but for sure would be happy to pay extra for the dual stage regulator to avoid it.

Not a problem. Is there an LFS that has the filters in question running so you could see if the noise levels are acceptable for you? If you're ever near Dunfermline you'd be welcome to listen to mine. If you've read positive things about the unit elsewhere then fingers crossed it's good, I haven't used it personally, be cautious of Youtube opinions as many like to peddle whoever is sponsoring them.

 

[Connswater]

I am sceptical about whether “end of tank dump” is indeed a thing. The inlet pressure is acting on a very small area compared to the outlet pressure acting on the diaphragm. The outlet pressure is regulated by the outlet chamber pressure pushing against the spring. Unless the spring gets stuck (poor build quality) then I’m not sure how this can be an issue.

If you search “end of tank dump” almost all results are from aquarium forums. “Citation needed” is applied to all references to end of tank dump on Wikipedia. I haven’t seen it happen on my own single stage regulator.

I don't understand the science of 'end of tank dump' (I wonder how many times on this site I've confessed to not understanding the science of something?) but I certainly came home once to a diffuser apparently 'blown off the tank wall' the cylinder pumping out silly amounts of CO2 and the cheap regulator telling me the cylinder was empty. I didn't lose any fish, timing of my arrival I think and the fact the diffuser was on the surface of the tank dancing around and thus putting CO2 Donald Trump like, into the atmosphere. When I took the 'empty' tank to the bottom of the garden and opened up the valve, plenty of gas came out.

 

[Aqua sobriquet]

One of the things I wrote about on here years ago was jumped on by those wishing to save money rather than thinking about safety.

I spoke to a guy who was servicing fire extinguishers where I worked. It was a large site so he was there for several days and I chatted to him quite a bit. He also gave me a couple of nearly out of date extinguishers. I happened to mention about using CO2 fire extinguishers connected to an Aquarium regulator. He said it was a bad idea and said the valve on the bottle (extinguisher) was only designed to be single use. Or put other way it was designed to be fully sealed against leaks up until the point the handle was pulled to empty it (on a fire). It was Not expected to be leak free when used for a purpose for which it was not designed, IE kept open over a period of weeks or months.

Obviously, any accident involving equipment being used in a manner for which it is not intended would invalidate any insurance.

I understand why some might take the risk for themselves. But I was quite shocked that some on here dismissed the issue to a point where others might also take a chance buoyed up by their bravado.

I’ve not looked since, but proper cylinders for dispensing food grade CO2 for the pub trade were not desperately expensive at the time and some on here did use and recommend them.

I never bothered with CO2 in the end as my plants grow well enough without it. If I did though I’d make doubly sure any equipment I used was up to and designed for the task. YMMV.

 

[Connswater]

food grade CO2

Great post, you have properly 'put the wind up me' as a FE guy...all I can say in my defence is that any other option is definitely more expensive and bothersome here where I live, in London where I lived previously, different matter.

 

[FrozenShivers]

One of the things I wrote about on here years ago was jumped on by those wishing to save money rather than thinking about safety.

I spoke to a guy who was servicing fire extinguishers where I worked. It was a large site so he was there for several days and I chatted to him quite a bit. He also gave me a couple of nearly out of date extinguishers. I happened to mention about using CO2 fire extinguishers connected to an Aquarium regulator. He said it was a bad idea and said the valve on the bottle (extinguisher) was only designed to be single use. Or put other way it was designed to be fully sealed against leaks up until the point the handle was pulled to empty it (on a fire). It was Not expected to be leak free when used for a purpose for which it was not designed, IE kept open over a period of weeks or months.

Obviously, any accident involving equipment being used in a manner for which it is not intended would invalidate any insurance.

I understand why some might take the risk for themselves. But I was quite shocked that some on here dismissed the issue to a point where others might also take a chance buoyed up by their bravado.

I’ve not looked since, but proper cylinders for dispensing food grade CO2 for the pub trade were not desperately expensive at the time and some on here did use and recommend them.

I never bothered with CO2 in the end as my plants grow well enough without it. If I did though I’d make doubly sure any equipment I used was up to and designed for the task. YMMV.

This is an interesting point, last time I was at Horizon Aquatics, one of the owner's spoke to me about a similar thing. Going from very rough memory he said that the person that supplies/refills the CO2 at the shop had voiced their concerns with the use of fire extinguishers for aquarium use, sadly I can't remember all the finer details as to why though but it sounded pretty reasonable to me at the time. On one hand I don't know of anyone having had a serious issue due to using a fire extinguisher, on the other hand, if there is only a slightly higher risk, or the risk goes from minor into potentially major/life threatening one - then it's certainly something that is worthy of consideration, I'd love to know for sure but it's above my pay grade 🙁

 

[simon_the_plant_nerd]

the cheap regulator telling me the cylinder was empty.

I think ‘cheap’ is the important word here.

Obviously, any accident involving equipment being used in a manner for which it is not intended would invalidate any insurance.

Would anything other than an aquarium branded co2 product be covered then? What if the regulator was sold and says it fits fire extinguishers? I’m not in insurance but I could guess at the answers to both those questions.

 

[Andy Pierce]

I am sceptical about whether “end of tank dump” is indeed a thing. The inlet pressure is acting on a very small area compared to the outlet pressure acting on the diaphragm. The outlet pressure is regulated by the outlet chamber pressure pushing against the spring. Unless the spring gets stuck (poor build quality) then I’m not sure how this can be an issue.

I'm pretty convinced this is real based on my direct experience. I have a two gauge single stage regulator and I do notice the flow increases after the tank pressure starts dropping below the constant level the tank otherwise holds at before it starts running out. That said at least for me so far the increase hasn't been super dramatic and since I don't inject very aggressively I haven't noticed any adverse effects. I keep a watch out for it and when it starts creeping up I turn down the regulator to compensate and order a new tank.