polka dot loaches and co2

[dbean]

Hi all, after havin algae problems with my aquarium I was advised to turn lights down, ferts up and co2 up, following the advice i started dosing leaf zone and turned my co2 to about 10 bps and the algae cleared after a clean and plants did brilliantly but my polka dot loaches became reclusive. Yesterday one of them was pale and looked very ill.. the others were in hiding, I immediatley turned my co2 down to 4bps and today they are swimming round the tank absolutley fine again.

Im struggling to adjust the co2 to 6 or 7 and count it accuratley but I just dont know what to do, do you think a few airstones will help. At the minute im just using an in tank diffuser which wastes alot of co2 but If I start using inline diffusers more co2 will be dissolved and even less bps will add to the problem.

Any advice?

My tanks a 400litre jewel with co2 currently at 3-4 bps with two rows of 55w t5s but one is currently off for 6 hours of the 8 hours light period. Dosing api leaf zone every week. My filters are 2x2000lph all pond solutions filters one with uv which are currently using spraybars to disturb the water at top of my tank.

thanks in advance (sorry if its a bit of a ramble)

 

[Nat N]

Hi,
I have kept Botia Kubotai in the past and I know they generally prefer acid to just about neutral conditions... Signs of CO2 poisoning for fish are normally gasping at the surface, not getting pale and reclusive - in fairness these loaches do not normally go to the surface anyway... I would work with the facts you have/gave: CO2 at 10 bps - they are not well, CO2 at 3-4 bps - they are fine... So, just a suggestion, really: 1) how hard is your water? what I mean is how much buffering do you have? maybe the problem is not that much in CO2 but in PH which goes beyond the loaches tolerance? 2) as you cleared the algae, you may not need that level of CO2 for your plant's needs (you have not said about what plants you have and how heavily or not your tank is planted. Remember: CO2 is there for the plants to consume and if not consumed, is changes the water chemistry) - Clive, please, forgive me!
In any case, my guess would be that the amount of CO2 you were dosing at 10 bps is too high, so reducing it is a good thing to do. Also, depending on your plants, reducing the light duration (using one bulb at a time alternating) could be a solution. I have a feeling you have far too few plants (sorry if I am wrong). If this is the case - PLANT MORE, and 10 bps will not be a problem for the Kubotai.

 

[dbean]

I have alot of plants in there.. or I think its alot

im not 100% on all the plant species as I bought like 122 plants in bulk and struggled to identify them all.
There is
Wisteria
Indian water fern
egria densa
baby dwarf tears

and a lot more im not sure of sorry ill try id them but its hard googling descriptions and I lost the list they came with. Also alot of plants I threw away as it was looking a bit of a rable and some didnt do so well.

 

[Iain Sutherland]

your diagonisis is right bean, shy reclusive fish is one of the first signs of co2 toxicity for fish that dont frequent the surface normally. Being able to see bubble counts is hard on big tanks and adjusting it by BPS even harder with cheaper needle valves. One thing to remember is bubble count ONLY works for your tank, comparing to others tanks BPS is massively ineffective and can make things worse.
Few solutions i have found along the way....
first off a quality needle valve is worth its weight in gold, no need to look at BPS when you know a half turn will make small increases. I use this one and its rocks my world
http://www.us-aquaristikshop.com/co2-verteiler/erweiterung-fuer-co2-verteiler.html
This sera bubble counter used upside down does the same job as the stupidly priced ADA one, in that it allows bigger bubbles to form so also less frequent
sera GmbH - Products - sera flore CO2 bubble counter
add to that this bubble counter fluid and with its higher viscosity its fairly easy to judge your own bubble count.
Bubble Counter Fluid – no more evaporation… | The Planted Aquarium Blog
be aware its a PITA it fill up the counter first time though.

Really though the main thing is to be sure you start with the bubble count low (reduce lighting during this time if possible) and then each day you are around to see the consequences turn it up a little until you get a nice green DC at lights on and no signs of stress on your fauna. Be sure to only turn it up once a day and dont adjust anything else that will effect the co2 saturation like surface movement....
Once you dial it in other adjustments may need to be made such as..
having co2 come on earlier at a lower bubble count
having it come on later with a higher bubble count
higher bubble count with a little more surface movement etc...

anyhow im rambling now.... Somewhere to start anyway

 

[dbean]

Right, id only just read your advice about changing things I.e. surface movement as I was in the middle of a pwc and a switch round of a few things when my phone beeped. but im taking another approach as ive got BGA which I think is due to poor water circulation to add to the co2 and loach problem.

I removed both my spray bars which has made a huge difference to the circulation. There is alot of surface agitation but I have removed my in tank diffuser have put the hose for the co2 into my filter inlet, this is temporary until I get an inline diffuser for the filter outlets as I heard that co2 damages seals. My co2 is going at 5bps which I recorded on my phone and slowed down to count to make things easier then did some math (it worked lol) so now ill just monitor it and increase if I can. The fluid in my drop checker has been replaced now so itll take a while to see what its like but the loaches are all happy for now.