Phosphate deficiency?

[hax47]

Root tabs and/or liquid ferts

Having recently been reading into root tabs, what are people's experience/opinion on their use? 2 tanks I'm running have no epiphytes, would it be advisable to do root tabs only, or in conjunction with ferts? I've also heard tropica tabs leave unsightly remnants, do seachem tabs or equivalent...

www.ukaps.org

Thanks,
It has been probably removed, I get an empty folder only with the link. If it was the summary of the 55-page Rotala Kill thread, then I could probably read that through.

 

[MichaelJ]

Dosing Tropica Premium over and above Tropica Specialised seems to be a waste of money - if you are looking at heavier dosing, you should be looking at other ferts as TSN is designed to be relatively 'lean'.

I agree. in terms of cost TSN is not a particularly good choice for hard alkaline water and heavier dosing. Even the heavily reduced 8 ml/daily dosing (down from 18 ml/daily) is well over Full EI in NO3 equivalents (56 ml weekly = 6.7 ppm N x 4.43 = ~30 ppm NO3). Also, with the super alkaline water (high pH) I would be a bit concerned about getting enough Fe from TSN and probably opt for an additional source.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Nikola]

Also, with the super alkaline water I would be concerned about getting enough Fe from TSN

For this size of aquarium price is not a problem.
I'm also worried about getting enough iron, that's why I asked should I dose Tropica premium.
Do you think it's okay if I ad daily 8ml of specialised, and 6ml premium?

 

[MichaelJ]

For this size of aquarium price is not a problem.
I'm also worried about getting enough iron, that's why I asked should I dose Tropica premium.
Do you think it's okay if I ad daily 8ml of specialised, and 6ml premium?

Yes, now given that your targeting Full EI levels the addition of 6 ml of Premium daily will give you a weekly dose of 0.26 ppm of Fe on top of the 0.34 ppm you get from Specialized. A total of 0.6 ppm of Fe weekly. That puts you well in line with oft quoted Full EI levels.

Alternatively, and perhaps better given your supposed high pH, you can use an alternative source of Iron such Sachem Flourish Iron which is iron Gluconate - which supposedly is more suitable at higher pH (I used it myself when I ran my tanks at higher KH levels). Or a DPTA chelated Iron which also will work better at higher pH. All that said, the addition of Premium - if cost is of no concern - should suffice.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Nikola]

Yes, now given that your targeting Full EI levels the addition of 6 ml of Premium daily will give you a weekly dose of 0.26 ppm of Fe on top of the 0.34 ppm you get from Specialized. A total of 0.6 ppm of Fe weekly. That puts you well in line with oft quoted Full EI levels.

Thanks a lot.
I already have Premium with me so I will dose like said.
Than I will se to obtain sachem Fluorish, was already reading about it.

 

[erwin123]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Effect-of-Fe-P-concentration-a-and-the-ratio-of-Fe-P-b-on-the-growth-of-algae-biomass_fig2_346028478

 

[Nikola]

It's four days how I'm dosing 8ml TSN and 6ml TPN, also 2ppm of phosphate over that.

Now I'm still fighting GSA and some leaves has black edges

Also montecarlo started having darkened older leaves...

Should I wait it out? What can cause darkening leaves?

 

[hasan66]

It's four days how I'm dosing 8ml TSN and 6ml TPN, also 2ppm of phosphate over that.

Now I'm still fighting GSA and some leaves has black edges
View attachment 213797
Also montecarlo started having darkened older leaves...

Should I wait it out? What can cause darkening leaves?

I think this blackness is nh4 in nh4no3 and it could also be weak CO2.

 

[Nikola]

I think this blackness is nh4 in nh4no3 and it could also be weak CO2.

Okay, so should go away probably now when I reduced dosage?
CO2 could be, that's the first point which I always address. But I think it should be good, I'm going around 15bps, with powerhead melding it and sending all over aquarium. If I try higher bps fishes are all on the surface. Flow is good, especially around carpet everything is saturated with microbubles.

 

[erwin123]

CO2 could be, that's the first point which I always address. But I think it should be good, I'm going around 15bps, with powerhead melding it and sending all over aquarium. If I try higher bps fishes are all on the surface. Flow is good, especially around carpet everything is saturated with microbubles.

while I accept that bubble size can vary, 15bps for a 112 litre tank sounds a lot. I am running at 3bps (2bps+1bps as I have 2 diffusers) on a 180 litre tank.

the point about 15bps is that I wonder whether your CO2 levels are able to stabilise, or do they keep on going higher and higher right until they are switched off. the ideal situation is for CO2 levels to stabilise quickly after a few hours at the target level. CO2 instability is associated with certain types of algae like BBA.

 

[Nikola]

15bps for a 112 litre tank sounds a lot.

I have a lot offgasing, surface agitation, skimmer, also few PC ventilators are blowing towards water surface. Although bubbles are small in my bubble counter when compare to others. was recording slow motion to count them.
Last year I was checking CO2 levels in this aquarium(had same equipment), I get very fast to 1.4 PH drop. And staying like that whole day.
Maybe I should check it again when will have time.

 

[_Maq_]

I think this blackness is nh4 in nh4no3

I think not. Ammonium nitrate is my default nitrogen source and I've never observed any damage to plants.

 

[John q]

Now I'm still fighting GSA and some leaves has black edges

The blackness is the beginning of bba, the green spot algae is a result of to much light, and an imbalance of Fe to P (Relative to the amount of co2 that's available)
Atm your solution seems to be add more of everything and hope the problem goes away.
Can I suggest an easy fix? Lower the amount of light 🫡

 

[Nikola]

The blackness is the beginning of bba, the green spot algae is a result of to much light, and an imbalance of Fe to P (Relative to the amount of co2 that's available)
Atm your solution seems to be add more of everything and hope the problem goes away.
Can I suggest an easy fix? Lower the amount of light 🫡

Thanks for suggestion but I don't want to lover it 😁
I started upping P one more ppm today

 

[John q]

Thanks for suggestion but I don't want to lover it

Lol, no worries.

 

[hasan66]

The blackness is the beginning of bba, the green spot algae is a result of to much light, and an imbalance of Fe to P (Relative to the amount of co2 that's available)
Atm your solution seems to be add more of everything and hope the problem goes away.
Can I suggest an easy fix? Lower the amount of light 🫡

@John q Then can we call this blackening an excess of iron?

 

[John q]

Then can we call this blackening an excess of iron?

Mmm, bba is a tricky customer, personally I don't attribute it to excess of iron, others do.
I've tried lowering fe dosing in one tank that has persistent bba and it made no difference tbh.

I can only say with some certainly that in two tanks that I run, that both have similar stocking levels of fish, exactly the same filtration and flow, and fertilizer, bba is predominant in only one of the tanks. The only difference for sure in the tank with bba has higher levels of light and a lower plant mass.

 

[_Maq_]

Atm your solution seems to be add more of everything and hope the problem goes away.

I can see this approach (and problems) all around, and whenever I whisper suggesting lean approach, someone enters and provides sort of explanation: "Well, hum hum, Maq is okay but, you know, he's a sort of extremist..."🤣

 

[Nikola]

Lean dosing is good approach, but I think you need to be more experienced for that.
Also I have plain gravel in my aquarium, so I think plants need a lot of food trough water column to accommodate unfertil substrate.

 

[John q]

Well, hum hum, Maq is okay but, you know, he's a sort of extremist..."🤣

A wise man once said (well I read) that to grow aquatic plants under ei levels of ferts is easy, he also said growing the same plants in lean conditions whilst not easy, is achievable.
His punch line... was, knowing how to achieve the same results, in both conditions.. makes one a true master.

Can you guess who said that lol

Also I have plain gravel in my aquarium, so I think plants need a lot of food trough water column to accommodate unfertil substrate.

I have plain gravel, to me its a ➕️ not a negative.