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Persistent GDA on plants

I thought the CO2 was probably pretty high since some of my fish do look a little stressed. But at the same time I hear CO2 being too high for the fish does not mean it is sufficient for the plants. But I would like to keep fish in my tank so I do not want to have dangerous levels of CO2 in my tank.


I do use tap water, below is the water report from a year ago. I will need to test the current parameters in my tank and get back to you. Tomorrow is actually water change day so it will be the perfect day to test. I will need to get a test kit for K, and Fe. Tomorrow I will test the pH before CO2 on and at lights on and at different points in the day to give you guys a better idea of the CO2 levels in the tank.
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@RickyV, just wondering if you're running your city water through a household softener or purifier system - very common here in the United States as you know, and many do not really think about or know the implications. If so, what the water report states will in many respects (mainly Ca/Mg and Sodium if using NaCl pellets) be completely different from what you will actually get out of your indoor taps... just wanted to make sure!

Cheers,
Michael
 
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Is it not possible to 'dilute' RickyV's tap water to lower the sodium level? I just had a quick look at a typical range of sodium figures for my tap water here in the UK. The range is 19 to 38 mg/litre. RickyV is seeing 33 to 81 ppm. Ricky, are you on well water? I ask because I see that you are in Texas.
I'm not on well water. I do have an RODI unit I use for my reef tank, but It wouldn't be too practical to use for my planted tank right now as I would need a big storage tank for water. And I don't want to go through too many RODI filters lol.
just wondering if your running your city what through a household softener (very common in the States, and many do not really think about the implications)... just wanted to make sure!
I don't believe I am.
 
So, I’ve a hard water tank and this chlorosis thing is a bit of a pet project for me at the moment.

I note your micro info doesn’t actually advise on whether or not the Fe is chelated at all so that’s probably less than helpful for you (unless it mentions this somewhere else on the packet?)

EDTA is stable up to 6-6.5ph and DTPA is stable to up to a PH of 7-7.5 (depending on source information) though note that the higher it gets, the less iron is available, and EDDHA goes up to a Ph of 9 or thereabouts.

Your tank it seems will exceed a Ph of 7 when Co2 is off, so, even with DTPA, by the morning after your micro dose, it could be that most of that Fe is no longer available.

EDDHA may solve that issue but the stronger the chelate, the tougher it is for the plant to access it. (And it’s pink😫)

So what’s the best solution? I think perhaps more than one road to Rome, but…..

I instigated some lovely chlorosis in my tank at 0.1ppm of Fe DTPA. It did not take long before my plants started to get pretty grumpy.

I tried an increase to 0.3ppm DTPA, and a combination of DTPA and EDDHA, also at 0.3ppm, without seeing improvement but a combination of DTPA and Fe gluconate (entirely unchelated) at 0.3ppm has done wonders.

This is counterintuitive, as Fe gluconate, being unchelated, is the least stable option and likely to remain available for only a short period. It is however super easy for the plants to uptake and likely to be preferably utilised.

So, plants get to suck up that Fe gluconate nice n quick and hey presto….happy plants!

Probably wouldn’t work if you were only dosing once pw of course, but on a 3xpw regime, it’s still doing ok for me.

I’d also have to say that I’m still testing, and my next plan is to remove the gluconate again to see if/how long it takes for chlorosis to show up (ie, is the experience repeatable) and perhaps to see whether an increase to DTPA only at 0.5ppm gives similar/better/worse results. I’d also be interested to test gluconate only and establish the minimum level the plants would be happy with.

I believe it’s possible that I may find that lower doses of the unchelated Fe gluconate could give better results than higher doses of the chelated products, despite it being a hard water tank…..but there’s a bit more work to do.

For yourself, it depends on what you want to achieve. I’m mixing my own Micro’s and Macro’s so have full control.

If, however, you want to carry on using your current micro mix as a base, it would be helpful first to understand whether the Fe in it is chelated to any level, and you could just try boosting this with some gluconate!!

Downside, it’s likely that pound for pound gluconate is gonna cost you more!!

You could also try adding some DTPA on top of your current base mix but I can’t tell you how much you’ll need before you see results. That would depend on just how little your plants are getting from the 0.5ppm of whatever Fe is already in the tank.
 
If, however, you want to carry on using your current micro mix as a base, it would be helpful first to understand whether the Fe in it is chelated to any level, and you could just try boosting this with some gluconate!!
You could also try adding some DTPA on top of your current base mix but I can’t tell you how much you’ll need before you see results. That would depend on just how little your plants are getting from the 0.5ppm of whatever Fe is already in the tank.

I just emailed customer support to find out what Fe is in the micro packets. I will probably add some iron DTPA in my micro bottle and see what happens. The Fe gluconate helping is interesting I may also try this if the DTPA does not help. I guess it depends on what Fe is in my fertilizer.
 
So here is an update on CO2. It looks like it takes quite a while for my tank to get the 1 pH drop. Here is the graph so far. I guess this means I need to increase surface agitation, and increase injection? I guess its probably best to not mess with the CO2 right now and see how plants respond from the chelated iron and Mg?
350gpH.png
 
I guess this means I need to increase surface agitation, and increase injection?
Just depends on what's happening with the ph drop after 2.30pm. Does it drop below 6.41 or remain stable? If it remains stable it might just be a case of starting the injection time a couple of hours earlier, if it continues to drop which is what I expect is happening then you might need to increase surface agitation, and start injection time earlier.
Given you've already had issues with the fish showing stress I'd be tempted to increase surface agitation a bit and start the gas at 7.30am, then 7 etc, and do a full co2 profile till lights out.

Obviously don't make changes to the co2 if you aren't around to monitor it.
I guess its probably best to not mess with the CO2 right now and see how plants respond from the chelated iron and Mg?
I'd get the co2 stable as a no1 priority. But sure add the extra nutrients as well.
 
This is quite late, but I chanced on this thread while looking up solutions for GDA growing on plants. I've since solved the problem and thought I'll share here for others having similar problems.

I recently changed to LED from T5HO. With brighter lights, algae issues popped up. One of the most persistent and annoying was GDA growing on the plants. I used to get them on hard surfaces only and most plants were free of GDA. It got so bad that my Nympheae zenkeri "red tiger lotus" became jade green from the GDA.

To cut the story short, I eventually discovered I was under dosing fertilisers by 25% (as prescribed by the manufacturer). Under the dimmer T5HO, I had minor issues that didn't bother me much. Under the bright LEDs, the issues became more pronounced and manifested in different ways. I corrected my dose to recommended dose and the plants recovered within a week. New leaves grew and remained algae free. Old GDA that got eaten off the plants did not return. Still have GDA on the glass, but that's comparatively easy to clean. But the plants are GDA free. It's been a few weeks now and remains so.
 
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