😳 my confusion - I thought you had run the tanks for some time with this water
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Persistent Diatoms in Mature Tanks & GDA
- Thread starter JohnC
- Start date
Hi John, sounds like a nightmare for you and I can understand how demoralising it must be, especially given your past history in planted tanks and the exquisite scaping room you now own.
Have you always had the issues, as you stated in your opening post that plant health has declined over time? I’m just trying to see if you have had success utilising your spring water or if there has always been an issue? Basically is the water the cause or another factor?
On the face of it, with your experience, it does seem to be something in the water if client tanks not fed from the spring have had no such issues.
Have you always used the same brands of remineralisers also?
Ady.
Have you always had the issues, as you stated in your opening post that plant health has declined over time? I’m just trying to see if you have had success utilising your spring water or if there has always been an issue? Basically is the water the cause or another factor?
On the face of it, with your experience, it does seem to be something in the water if client tanks not fed from the spring have had no such issues.
Have you always used the same brands of remineralisers also?
Ady.
JohnC
Member
I've been in this property for 6 years now and did a good few scapes in the house while finishing the room outside.
(note the mini landscaping rock in this may have buffered my kh for me)
Happy growth...
Even the first 6 months in the room were probably ok.... some interesting growth in a couple of tanks but I put it down to learning the new lights and other variables.
This is the issue really. I'm dealing with a lot of variables when talking about the entire room. Thing I know that i did do wrong which might have led to the initial outbreak and infestation of GDA (although this in itself is a epic reading fest to dig down into).
The room got too warm during summer before i installed extraction fans. 28-32 degrees at times.
The kH was never actively buffered in any of the tanks so may have been bottoming out the ph
I messed up with my gH boosting and ended up with exceedingly high gH, tiny kH.
I ended up dosing almost all my gH in MgSO4 with lack of calcium.
All sorted now.
Other things that I suspected. I was happily using TNC trace for years until they stopped doing dry salts. My switch to other trace suppliers happened approx the same time. I was getting chlorosis on some leaves while dosing EI and got suspicious (hence the Magnesium) but also cast a suspicious eye on my new dry ferts.
I'm a sucker for reusing aquasoils and do spend a lot of time deep cleaning and carefully capping them in newer tanks. I had a lovely second plant holding tank going well with high light but the plastic outlet bend popped off when i was out of the room and "washing machined" the substrate and boom GDA was activated and present until the tank had to be taken down. The GDA was probably cross contaminated from other tanks in the room with it. As it has slowly appeared in every tank, from which i'm now systematically removing it again.
The diatoms are another thing. They initially appeared on an area of bolbitis on one tank that otherwise was very happy. They only really seem to sweep through the rest of the tanks once GDA started showing up. Especially the plant holding tanks which never showed any sign of any algae until the GDA, then now the diatoms are present and unrelenting on the older leaves. I did have to deep clean the aquasoils in all off the GDA infested tanks as there was so much associated sediment build up in them from the GDA and leaf loss I had to get it out.
All the tanks have minimal fish stocking, plant holding tanks are practically uninhabited.
JohnC
Member
We do have the same "tank on the hill" it's just the run from our shared stop cocks to the hall and my house is different pipes, and their internal pipework is older than mine and not used often.
Hence the elevated copper, lead and zinc readings. All due to the corrosion of pipework from the lower ph/highly oxygenated water supply.
Remove that element from that test reading and you probably have the common water readings. I have the bacterial analysis somewhere too.....
Seems in fathomable really, like a plague. The early successes confuse the situation further. I can appreciate your despair and the want to find the cause as I’m sure it will be just one factor but the continuation of the same issue suggests a common denominator......I've been in this property for 6 years now and did a good few scapes in the house while finishing the room outside.
(note the mini landscaping rock in this may have buffered my kh for me)
Happy growth...
Even the first 6 months in the room were probably ok.... some interesting growth in a couple of tanks but I put it down to learning the new lights and other variables.
This is the issue really. I'm dealing with a lot of variables when talking about the entire room. Thing I know that i did do wrong which might have led to the initial outbreak and infestation of GDA (although this in itself is a epic reading fest to dig down into).
The room got too warm during summer before i installed extraction fans. 28-32 degrees at times.
The kH was never actively buffered in any of the tanks so may have been bottoming out the ph
I messed up with my gH boosting and ended up with exceedingly high gH, tiny kH.
I ended up dosing almost all my gH in MgSO4 with lack of calcium.
All sorted now.
Other things that I suspected. I was happily using TNC trace for years until they stopped doing dry salts. My switch to other trace suppliers happened approx the same time. I was getting chlorosis on some leaves while dosing EI and got suspicious (hence the Magnesium) but also cast a suspicious eye on my new dry ferts.
I'm a sucker for reusing aquasoils and do spend a lot of time deep cleaning and carefully capping them in newer tanks. I had a lovely second plant holding tank going well with high light but the plastic outlet bend popped off when i was out of the room and "washing machined" the substrate and boom GDA was activated and present until the tank had to be taken down. The GDA was probably cross contaminated from other tanks in the room with it. As it has slowly appeared in every tank, from which i'm now systematically removing it again.
The diatoms are another thing. They initially appeared on an area of bolbitis on one tank that otherwise was very happy. They only really seem to sweep through the rest of the tanks once GDA started showing up. Especially the plant holding tanks which never showed any sign of any algae until the GDA, then now the diatoms are present and unrelenting on the older leaves. I did have to deep clean the aquasoils in all off the GDA infested tanks as there was so much associated sediment build up in them from the GDA and leaf loss I had to get it out.
All the tanks have minimal fish stocking, plant holding tanks are practically uninhabited.
It seems such a shame for this to have demoralised you away from what was clearly a very pleasurable hobby and living but I can completely understand.
I hope somebody can shed some light but aside from carrying out several test tanks and or spending money on equipment that you may not need like a hma filter then you may not get to the bottom of it.
It would be interesting to see the results of utilising water from a different source without altering anything else, and in another tank utilising all new substrate, plants etc to see if that changes anything. I guess though ultimately you have tried all sorts of avenues which have lead you to this point, I hope it isn’t the end as the results in the images above are fantastic.
Ady.
JohnC
Member
It is trying.... with a single tank you would just restart and hope it goes away but the slog of having it in all the tanks, different ages, does just kick it out of you.
Todays water changes on the remaining 5.
The two at the end (oldest of the scapes) have run a course of GDA treatment and look like it's gone. I'd also stuck on a airstone on each in the last few weeks. As well as upping the dKH on all the tanks. This has had a good effect on plant growth, especially moss. Algae gone for now only a touch of bba on one. The diatoms that could be see as present in the older moss or slower growers and no longer present. Lower nitrate DIY ferts but EI variant.
Middle tank with minimal planting shows no bad algae but weak as hell plant growth. Diatoms on older hydrocotyle Japan leaf edges showing. Purple bamboo no longer verdant, rapid growth. Currently lower nitrate DIY ferts EI variant.
Small shrimp tank - no CO2, full planted, showing signs of diatoms for some reason. But generally so low maintenance i'd probably put it to neglect.
Plant holding tank - still exceptionally poor growth. GDA stayed away for two weeks after treatment but is back in a small amount now. Substrate keeps getting dirty for some reason, old aquasoils which i've "deep cleaned" to try and stabilise with appropriate water changes. Diatoms forming over all slow growth older leaves on lower plants. Stems ok. This is after i've systematically removed and bleach dipped (light solution) to try and remove them all in the last couple of weeks. This tank had a heater fitted in the last month to try and see if that was the issue (temp variations dipping too low during the night in the unheated room 21 deg). No Joy. Will probably try a black out on this tank next to see if i can save some of the rare plants before taking the tank down too. Full EI, higher energy
Another week, another mixed bag.
Are you drying them between?
I don’t know that it matters except this should help remove crushed materials (though again, how relevant is this - Filipe Oliveira method should also remove 90% of fines if done thoroughly ... except he also uses the soil drying method quite a lot) and make rescaping, especially hardscape placement, a cleaner process
If ADA Soil, this is a softer soil
If you recall Mark Evans had issues with a batch of used ADA, as I recall he mentions not just algae but also poor plant growth
Green Aqua recommends against its reuse, again mentioning greater algae considerations, less predictable growth - obviously the shop tanks need to look good most of the time
JohnC
Member
I've not seen the specific filipe method.
these have been dried and stored. then before reuse the "fines" extensively rinsed. Then capped with newer soils.
😳 thought I’d linked it here (but must be another thread)
Filipe Oliveira
VLOG Step by Step Rescape of a 60L
He adds extra (slow release type) nutrient tabs to the AquaFlore display scapes (it’s often 1-2 months between his visits; water changes, limited water column fertilizers are done by other staff), especially when re-using soils
Filipe Oliveira
VLOG Step by Step Rescape of a 60L
He adds extra (slow release type) nutrient tabs to the AquaFlore display scapes (it’s often 1-2 months between his visits; water changes, limited water column fertilizers are done by other staff), especially when re-using soils
JohnC
Member
Other then the extra tabs (which i do occasionally add) i have been doing the "oliverira" method for years without knowing it. 🙂
That is exactly how i would prep the soil between scapes. Although it in this case had been dried and stored in the dark before cleaning and reuse.
This weeks update.
The two tanks that have the best planting and had the added airstone are looking great. Minimal algae, no diatoms or GDA. Moss looking great and growing well for the first time in ages. Has the raising of the kH and oxygen done the job? One has heater and keeping it at 24 other is bouncing from 21 to 23 currently. Lower nitrate DIY ferts but EI variant.
Middle tank lighting was off for a few days and actually helped loads with the light diatoms on the older hydrocotyle leaves. Might consider sticking a heater on this one and raising O2 levels. Currently lower nitrate DIY ferts EI variant.
Plant holding tank is back to bad GDA and diatoms. Substrate is looking v dirty again but that might be leaf debris and/or diatomic bits. Diatoms on all the older leaves in thick amounts. heater is in this one. minimal live stock. I've added a twinstar clone to improve O2. Upping kH to 4 ish to try and keep boosting the filter. Full EI, higher energy
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Hi john,
Interesting read as I've also had a similar problem with, what I assume is diatoms, for all my aquarium owning time. Its particularly strong on hard scape however I'm having a bit of success at the moment where plants are seemingly growing better than ever. I also get it a little on slow growers.
What is your diatoms like? Mine is quite hard and I almost have to get a wire brush on it to get it off easily. when re-scaping the tanks previously I've ended up pressure washing it to get the stuff off.
Be good to see a picture or two of it as well to see if its similar. my water parameters are very hard really so the opposite of yours.
Interesting read as I've also had a similar problem with, what I assume is diatoms, for all my aquarium owning time. Its particularly strong on hard scape however I'm having a bit of success at the moment where plants are seemingly growing better than ever. I also get it a little on slow growers.
What is your diatoms like? Mine is quite hard and I almost have to get a wire brush on it to get it off easily. when re-scaping the tanks previously I've ended up pressure washing it to get the stuff off.
Be good to see a picture or two of it as well to see if its similar. my water parameters are very hard really so the opposite of yours.
