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Paludarium / tartarium glass thickness

UrbanDryad

Member
Joined
28 Aug 2023
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76
Location
Brighton
So. Turtle terrariums, aka tartariums, seem like fantastic starting points for making a paludarium or riparium. However, both the Ciano and the Exo Terra ones seem to have really thin glass, at 3-4mm thickness. I checked their dimensions on the aquarium glass thickness calculator and they'd need much thicker glass (6-9mm) in order to fit the suggested safety factor of 3.8. I understand that a tartarium wouldn't be filled up with water the whole way, so it wouldn't have quite so much pressure on the glass, but given that turtles are hard-shelled and can be quite boisterous, it seems really strange to me that these enclosures don't have thicker glass or a brace as part of the frame.

Am I missing or misunderstanding something? If you've used these for a paludarium / riparium / planted shallow tank, what has your experience been? Any problems, or recommendations?

(I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in Hardware/DIY, but settled on this section as it seemed more likely to have people in the know)
 
Hi, @UrbanDryad, I don't think you're missing anything. I think they're just products built down to a price. I still occasionally look at the Ciano 80 Tartarium and think it would make a lovely shallow tank, but I'm sure I'd klutz it fatally sooner or later.

That said, I have a couple of the Diversa 25L tanks, which are also very thin, and have had no issues with them yet, but the dimensions being much smaller the risk is less.

If you find something more sturdy, let me know!
 
If you look back at MD Fish Tanks videos, Im pretty sure he is using a Ciano Tartarium in the shallow tank builds ( I think theres a river type, and one with a peace lily growing out of it). Personally I have no experience....
 
Thanks everyone!

@Simon Cole - thank you, that's a good shout. I'll contact Exo Terra and Ciano about the kinds of glass, and report back here (which will hopefully be useful for @hwscot too). I also know someone who has a Ciano tartarium so I'll ask if she can check it! (She's had no issues so far but has used light and minimal hardscape)

@OllieTY - I appreciate the tip; I think I saw that video before I stopped watching the channel. I honestly wouldn't trust MD Fish Tanks about anything related to long-term sustainability or safety. He makes pretty scapes, but he advocates for fish-in cycles and refuses to say that a 10L Fluval Spec is inappropriate for a Betta, which seem like fundamental lapses in care.
 
Heard back from Exo Terra already!

Thank you for your e-mail.

No, the glass is not tempered, nor are there any braces, they were manufactured the same as our Terrariums and Paludariums, and have been on the market for 10 years, without any issues.
 
A lot of the thinner glass aquariums are tempered glass. It's hard to know unless manufacturers make this clear to their customers.
As I understand it, once glass has been tempered, it can't be cut or drilled, so tempered glass in aquariums would have to be supplied by the glassmaker already at the final-use dimensions - that would surely be quite a cost issue.
Are there aquarium ranges that we definitely know to be made with tempered glass?
 
Are there aquarium ranges that we definitely know to be made with tempered glass?
Yes - Diversa for example.
In fact, the costs become more advantageous because far fewer goods are damaged in production and transport.

@UrbanDryad Have you had an opportunity to inspect and compare glass? Have you considered low iron glass like <Pilkington Optiwhite>?
The retail prices for glass are usually quite reasonable, and for DIY projects I will be using Optiwhite, purchasing possibly from <here>.
I haven't found anything commercially-manufactured that I want (paludariums).

The challenge is understanding what plants you are looking to keep, then finding/designing a tank biome to match those environmental conditions. Often there is a <vapour pressure deficit> determining plants that will survive and thrive in different relative humidity and temperature levels. In terms of light tolerance, there are plants that react badly to intensive lighting, and inversely as you will find many plants that thrive.

Part of the challenge is finding an economical solution to heating and lighting. You have actually reached me at a point where I am willing to recommend a product... and I very rarely do that. There is a new LED light that came out this year that has really exceeded the expectations of many growers, and it is called the Viparspectra XS1500 Pro, reviewed <here>. I own one and it is worth every penny. At it's lowest setting of 5% it is perfect for shade loving plants and it uses about 15 watts. At 25% intensity it uses about 35 watts and for me, hits a sweet-spot for tropical rheophytes. It gives an almost uniform light distribution, and this is exceptional because normally there is a 300-400% difference across the growing grid. It is the first light to achieve these standards, mainly due to the novel lens technology. I have run all kinds of estimates on how much energy this will save me each year, and it's looking like around £20 compared to the next best models. The lights come with a small amount of IR and UVB to promote plant metabolism, and they are a beautiful full-spectrum white. Reasonably waterproof too. So over the 10 years that I will have it - it will pay for itself in energy savings and will effectively become free. Ask if you want to know more. There are other lights more specific to terrariums and paludariums, and far cheaper options. But.... temptation diminished in my mind completely when I saw the test results, and the quality when I held it, oh the quality.

Heating is a bit like lighting. You want plants to be uniformly heated ideally. Suboptimal conditions will result in disease. There may be substrate heaters that have enough power and can be thermally controlled, but it would be worth speaking to a few other members before you purchase. Plenty of other options too, and it might be worth considering whether you will need a temperature controller (thermostat) in addition. And that's about all there is to it. I would consider a DIY or custom build because there isn't that much out there I would buy - plus you get something you want and will take with you through the hobby. As a side-note, if you end up with areas of dry land, do consider introducing some <Trichoderma viride> to help your plants out. I am getting astounding results with it, and I have not lost a single plant to disease; I observe it colonising and protecting plant tissues as a white mass. Any questions - keep asking - it's well worth our time helping on this.
 
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No, the glass is not tempered, nor are there any braces, they were manufactured the same as our Terrariums and Paludariums, and have been on the market for 10 years, without any issues.
If it's not tempered glass then you have done me/us a massive service in checking - thank you. Perhaps, it's a bit on the thin side, especially considering some of the reviews on Amazon.
 
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@Simon Cole I'm glad it was useful, I'm always happy to do a bit of research! :)

Thank you for all of this information about glass and lighting - I really appreciate how comprehensive you've been, and especially providing links. I've not seen either the Ciano or Exo Terra tartariums in person, although I do have an Exo Terra nano viv, so if it's the same glass then I can inspect it and report back - is there anything you'd particularly recommend checking for?

I suspect that I won't be able to make use of all the specific product recommendations, however, as I'm limited by space, budget, and DIY skills - the idea of purchasing glass and constructing my own tank is very intimidating, and I don't really have a 'workshop' space at home. I've re-sealed one cheap second-hand tank and have aspirations to do the same with some others I've picked up (I'll likely post a new thread asking for advice about that when I get a moment), so perhaps once I'm more confident with restoration I'll feel able to construct something new! I was mostly wondering about the glass thickness because a) I've had other people recommend tartariums as good tanks for bettas due to being long and shallow, and b) the Exo Terra is currently on sale for £35 down from £103. I'd consider a second-hand tank of those dimensions at that price to be an absolute bargain, so was very excited at the prospect of a new one where I wouldn't be potentially putting a lot of time and effort into making it useable. However, if it's not actually got the glass strength to support the amount of hardscape and water needed for an interesting build, it's much much less of a bargain, and I don't feel so compelled to leap on it before it goes out of stock at sale price. I'm new to aquascaping, and trying not to let it accidentally overwhelm my flat or my bank account!

Re: lighting, my terrestrial plants (the ones under glass, at least) are currently growing with Arcadia Jungle Dawn LED bars - bright white and definitely a step up from the (IMO hideous) blue/red/purple grow lights, but definitely much much cheaper than some of the other name-brand grow lights I've seen advertised to/by people in my community. Plus I got to support my local reptile rescue centre by buying lights from them! If you've got any opinions or information about this light and how it compares to similar ones then I'd be delighted to hear and learn. :)
 
As general tanks, I buy <Begondis 45P> aquariums. They are low iron glass, faultless, and only £52 with free delivery. If I could go back and start again then it would be with some of these.
There are also longer low-iron <Lanedn shallow tanks> on Amazon that appear to resemble the "Landen" ones, and are known to be very weak - in some of the reviews on Amazon the thin glass pops-apart during shipping.
Personally, I would have a go at resealing something using HA6 silicone sealant, just in case DIY becomes possible. I will keep an eye out for affordable alternatives, shallow 2 to 3 ft long.
Bettas do not mind smaller tanks, I used to move them between tanks and spend time with them.
I find that dimmable lighting is the way forwards with certain sensitive tropical species, but you can easily add shading as required, or a lid to control evaporation. I haven't used Jungle Dawn bulbs, but they look good.
 
Thank you loads for these recommendations :)

I've now heard back from Ciano as well!

We confirm, Tartarium 40 is made with float glass (not tempered) 3 mm thickness and Tartarium 60 and 80 is made with float glass (not tempered) 4 mm thickness. Don’t need any bracer, and you can fill it at the top as an aquarium. Perfectly safe and reliable.
 
what has your experience been?
dscf9587-custom-jpg.jpg

This was a DIY 120cm x 30 cm x 22 cm - 4mm standard blank floating glass...
img_20201210_125153651-jpg.jpg


It worked out okay so far, but see the large Cyprus at the right? Its roots pushed the glass panel out and ripped the silicone seal open. The 4 mm seal wasn't strong enough to hold the plant... If I ever do it again I definitively make it thicker and not sure if I ever would put a Cyprus in there again... Plants can be pretty strong with their roots...
 
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