Nutrients dosage after green water algae ?

[eminor]

Hello, after a month fight against green water, I think I've won, the plants must have suffered but for the past week the water has been clear but some species seem to be in a pitiful state. The rotala rotundifolia loses leaves, but it becomes red, the general growth of the plants seems very slow despite the co2 ( 45 bubbles per minute for 54 litres, around 15-20 ppm ).

I think what caused the green water was too much lighting and perhaps too many nutrients, I reduced the lighting by at least 30%. I used tnc complete fertilizer, before the green water I was dosing 1ml/day, I am now at 0.5 ml/day. The plants seem to be in deficiency, the tips of some stems are black, should I start again with a dosage of 1ml/day? thank you.

Ph : 7.2 (6.8 with co2)
°KH : 12
°DH : 15
NO2 : 0
NO3 : 19

 

[Zeus.]

Excess ferts is rarely an issue as levels have to be really high. I would double the standard dose of TNC till the plants pick up and slowly increase light in small steps over weeks not days

 

[eminor]

Excess ferts is rarely an issue as levels have to be really high. I would double the standard dose of TNC till the plants pick up and slowly increase light in small steps over weeks not days

so i need to put 2ml/day which is 4 times the actual dosage ? will give it a try, thanks =)

 

[ceg4048]

I think what caused the green water was too much lighting

Yes.

and perhaps too many nutrients

Never.

the general growth of the plants seems very slow despite the co2 ( 45 bubbles per minute for 54 litres, around 15-20 ppm ).

Despite the fact that you are adding CO2 these photos indicate the plants are actually suffering CO2 deficiency.
All of the photos show leaves which are translucent. I can also see some plants with stems decayed and the remaining tips are brown. This is always an indication of poor CO2.

Photo #1 shows the diffuser in the worst possible place for CO2. I do not understand why so many people place it in that location. The bubbles rise and immediately escape the tank. Gases do not diffuse easily in water so they need help.

I cannot see how your filter outlet is placed, however, this is also a possible faulty configuration. When CO2 is being added, yet the tank suffers CO2 faults, then the most likely scenario is that there is poor flow or poor distribution of flow.
I can guarantee you that the plants are not seeing 15-25 ppm.

Also the leaves do look a bit pale. Contrary to what yu imagine, they are also probably suffering nutrient deficiency, most likely poor NO3.

CHeers,

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

so i need to put 2ml/day which is 4 times the actual dosage ? will give it a try, thanks =)

Hiya mate, you tend to find that the "all in one fert" solutions are quite week in nutrients and are generally speaking used in lower lighting scenarios. Going by your comments and plants you seem to be aiming for a high tech setup.
In general when doing this people tend to aim for a non-limiting fert regime dosing weekly.....

Nitrate (NO3) 20ppm per week
Potassium (K) 30ppm per week
Phosphate (PO4) 3ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 10ppm per week
Iron (Fe) 0.5ppm per week

That's not to say that's how much ferts you need in your set up as it's at the top end of the game and if using tap water you might be getting some N, most like a bit of P very rarely Mg or K. but to compare that with your proposed 4ml dose of TNC complete adding 4ml daily you would be dosing weekly....

Nitrate (NO3) 7.77 ppm per week
Potassium (K) 25.92 ppm per week
Phosphate (PO4) 1.036 ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 4.51 ppm per week
Iron (Fe) 0.413 ppm per week

As you can see from that you would be starting to getting close to non limiting but definitely a step in the right direction. Hopefully you get a bit more N from the tap and fish waste to make up the shortfall. You've done the right thing by getting the lights down. I would up the dosing to 4ml per day and maybe look at getting some liquid carbon to help you out with that algae while you're looking at getting that co2 injection and distribution right. You might find that while you are sorting your co2 algae issued might rear their head again because of the fluctuations so the liquid carbon will just make things "uncomfortable" for them being an algaecide.

 

[eminor]

Yes.

Never.

Despite the fact that you are adding CO2 these photos indicate the plants are actually suffering CO2 deficiency.
All of the photos show leaves which are translucent. I can also see some plants with stems decayed and the remaining tips are brown. This is always an indication of poor CO2.

Photo #1 shows the diffuser in the worst possible place for CO2. I do not understand why so many people place it in that location. The bubbles rise and immediately escape the tank. Gases do not diffuse easily in water so they need help.

I cannot see how your filter outlet is placed, however, this is also a possible faulty configuration. When CO2 is being added, yet the tank suffers CO2 faults, then the most likely scenario is that there is poor flow or poor distribution of flow.
I can guarantee you that the plants are not seeing 15-25 ppm.

Also the leaves do look a bit pale. Contrary to what yu imagine, they are also probably suffering nutrient deficiency, most likely poor NO3.

CHeers,

I learn so much on this board, thank you, i'll try to put it under the outlet because right now the diffuser is on the other side

 

[eminor]

Hiya mate, you tend to find that the "all in one fert" solutions are quite week in nutrients and are generally speaking used in lower lighting scenarios. Going by your comments and plants you seem to be aiming for a high tech setup.
In general when doing this people tend to aim for a non-limiting fert regime dosing weekly.....

Nitrate (NO3) 20ppm per week
Potassium (K) 30ppm per week
Phosphate (PO4) 3ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 10ppm per week
Iron (Fe) 0.5ppm per week

That's not to say that's how much ferts you need in your set up as it's at the top end of the game and if using tap water you might be getting some N, most like a bit of P very rarely Mg or K. but to compare that with your proposed 4ml dose of TNC complete adding 4ml daily you would be dosing weekly....

Nitrate (NO3) 7.77 ppm per week
Potassium (K) 25.92 ppm per week
Phosphate (PO4) 1.036 ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 4.51 ppm per week
Iron (Fe) 0.413 ppm per week

As you can see from that you would be starting to getting close to non limiting but definitely a step in the right direction. Hopefully you get a bit more N from the tap and fish waste to make up the shortfall. You've done the right thing by getting the lights down. I would up the dosing to 4ml per day and maybe look at getting some liquid carbon to help you out with that algae while you're looking at getting that co2 injection and distribution right. You might find that while you are sorting your co2 algae issued might rear their head again because of the fluctuations so the liquid carbon will just make things "uncomfortable" for them being an algaecide.

Green water made me really anxious about fertilizer, i thought it was the cause of it but now i know it's not, i'll try to put 4ml/day. That's true, I want to try high setup because plants looks so beautiful. It's so hard to find the perfect spot, thanks you !!!

To kill the green water, I used hydrogen peroxide in high dosage with high water flow, waited 15 min, then changed 50% of the water, I'm impressed it worked !

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi
Not the most efficient diffuser....change it to a Neo!

AQUARIO - Neo CO2 Diffusor - Special Type

The AQUARIO NEO CO2 Diffusor Special Type is an acrylic CO2 Diffusor with a very narrow diffusor body and the connection to the pipe at its side. The special ceramic membrane...

www.aquasabi.com

hoggie

 

[eminor]

Hi
Not the most efficient diffuser....change it to a Neo!

AQUARIO - Neo CO2 Diffusor - Special Type

The AQUARIO NEO CO2 Diffusor Special Type is an acrylic CO2 Diffusor with a very narrow diffusor body and the connection to the pipe at its side. The special ceramic membrane...

www.aquasabi.com

hoggie

Yes, even my jbl taifun cylinder is better, it turn the drop checker yellowish while the ceramic turn it hardly green :/

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

Green water made me really anxious about fertilizer,

I think green water, cyan bacteria (green slime) and diatoms (a coating of brown stuff) usually appear when a tank is immature and not biologically stable yet so things should improve with age. Going forward with fertilisers people often worry that they cause algae but this more relates to fish only tanks really where there is nothing to eliminate the N and P so algae feed off it, in a planted tank the exact is opposite when the tank is mature and the plants are healthy. Plants consume the fertiliser and fish waste and the higher the lighting the more they consume. Algae aren't as fussy eaters so can thrive in any conditions whereas plants need some of all the nutrients listed in the previous post to be healthy, as long as they have all the above they will thrive and out compete the algae.

Plants consume mainly N and K by about 10x the others when feeding well (although they do need all of them) your 4ml dose should cover this with nitrate being slightly on the low side, I've only just realised that you are in France so maybe you will get some Magnesium out the tap, low Mg is usually a UK thing unless in certain areas. See if you can get a water report from where you live or if you use a test kit see if Nitrate is coming out the tap. Other than that the 4ml should cover you for now and you can focus on the co2 side of things which is far more complicated.

Later down the line if low nitrate is becoming an issue you could add extra in the form of potassium nitrate.

 

[eminor]

I think green water, cyan bacteria (green slime) and diatoms (a coating of brown stuff) usually appear when a tank is immature and not biologically stable yet so things should improve with age. Going forward with fertilisers people often worry that they cause algae but this more relates to fish only tanks really where there is nothing to eliminate the N and P so algae feed off it, in a planted tank the exact is opposite when the tank is mature and the plants are healthy. Plants consume the fertiliser and fish waste and the higher the lighting the more they consume. Algae aren't as fussy eaters so can thrive in any conditions whereas plants need some of all the nutrients listed in the previous post to be healthy, as long as they have all the above they will thrive and out compete the algae.

Plants consume mainly N and K by about 10x the others when feeding well (although they do need all of them) your 4ml dose should cover this with nitrate being slightly on the low side, I've only just realised that you are in France so maybe you will get some Magnesium out the tap, low Mg is usually a UK thing unless in certain areas. See if you can get a water report from where you live or if you use a test kit see if Nitrate is coming out the tap. Other than that the 4ml should cover you for now and you can focus on the co2 side of things which is far more complicated.

Later down the line if low nitrate is becoming an issue you could add extra in the form of potassium nitrate.

thx, i have a tap report :

pH : 7.2 (6.8 evening)
Nitrates : 19ppm (my test give me 12.5)
no2 : 0
NH4 : 0
Mg : 3.8 ppm
Potassium : 1.62 ppm

I'm really near UK so it might be normal to get low mg

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

Perfect mate, you don't need much mg anyway and you have some nitrate. Now it's time to get on with the bad head of sorting your co2. Turning down your light as given you a bit more room for error.

 

[eminor]

Perfect mate, you don't need much mg anyway and you have some nitrate. Now it's time to get on with the bad head of sorting your co2. Turning down your light as given you a bit more room for error.

Well the light has been really reduced, i'm near the medium-high light, yes high light give you a really small room, i have an internal filter, i placed the co2 diffuser on the other glass so the flow is coming though the co2 bubbles, it put them downward then they follow the flow path around the tank, little amount of co2 is getting to the top. i know that glass cyclinder "jbl taifun" is better in my tank but it's so ugly :/