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New growth curling

fishnplant

New Member
Joined
29 Nov 2024
Messages
5
Location
California, USA
I've been battling what seems to be calcium deficiency, but I am getting no luck. Dosing EI using various methods, and heavily (2x or more), micro via with csm+b. Tanks have strong flow, co2, weekly wc, heavily planted, in 2 tanks, both exhibit similar problem. Also started dosing equilibrium recently.

my water report,
https://www.sjwater.com/sites/default/files/2024-05/SanJoseWater2023-050424 FINAL hi res.pdf
i am in the vw surface, i believe my water is moderate hard already, but since i've been having issue equilibrium was introduced. I've also tried dosing gypsum with mg home made mix, nothing helps.

substrate is 5+ years old dirt (probably inert by now), and sand. these tanks are both very old, i've been keeping fish & plants for a while.
 

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I cannot give you a definitive answer, in my experience calcium deficiency leads to leaves curling, the leaf literally rolls in on itself.
Hygrophila polysperma I found an excellent underwater indicator.
AD_4nXdIr3XX-8xXCpVb1CmLvW0vN5bYh-kbEGRa5rGKjnyfC_Tp2EWGJynSUo-t8WeNdo77Ra-C7YnQ6_-EV_sFQYRwtxBSEBgLBWT87wXvo6cSe8IfoOVRwvXp4Ziz86V-pf_UOjs1

A picture of a terrestrial plant with typical leaf roll from calcium deficiency, a pepper plant.
 
Hi all,
I've been battling what seems to be calcium deficiency, but I am getting no luck.
To be honest they don't look noticeably deficient in anything.

Looking at your water report, all the water sources contain some calcium (Ca). It doesn't give you an elemental calcium value, but it gives you hardness (dGH), and even if some of that dGH is magnesium (Mg) it would still be enough Ca.
Hardness (as CaCO₃) ppm N/A 133 107-158 376 210-503 86 37 - 117
The curling on the new leaves of the emergent growth looks to be just the change in morphology as the plants go from submerged to emersed.
224477-2a00bef984e5dc7ab1992dcf5a1560f9.jpg


cheers Darrel
 
Maybe the pictures hard to tell so I took some more. In real life it is very obvious in deformity and curling and twisting. Perhaps not enough micro?
 

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Ref. the Sword, I suspect you are right and your substrate is a bit exhausted, some capsules and Iron - the emerged plant looks more like lack of humidity to me.
 
I've been noticing some signs of deficinecy in one of my tanks with very old exhausted aquasoil recently. Some but not all bucephalandra have started growing leaves with holes in them and several anubias congensis plants have very distinctly curled downward leaf tips. jave ferns, moss and bolbitis all seem unaffected and other than the curling the anubias leaves all seem healthy enough.
My curling leaves aren't curling inwards like in your picture though @Connswater, just downwards at the tips, could this also potentially indicate a specific nutrient deficiency?
 
I've been noticing some signs of deficinecy in one of my tanks with very old exhausted aquasoil recently. Some but not all bucephalandra have started growing leaves with holes in them and several anubias congensis plants have very distinctly curled downward leaf tips. jave ferns, moss and bolbitis all seem unaffected and other than the curling the anubias leaves all seem healthy enough.
My curling leaves aren't curling inwards like in your picture though @Connswater, just downwards at the tips, could this also potentially indicate a specific nutrient deficiency?
I wish I could tell you for sure, post a picture or two, Darrel is the real expert not me.
The RHS mention yellowing for just about every deficiency but on new leaves I always tend to suspect Iron but holes tend to be Potassium deficiency, I like a tank fertiliser high in Potassium, it gets exhausted in aquariums, fish waste is poor source. But honestly, you are one ahead of me growing bucephalandra and anubias, they just covered in bright green algae in my tank. Bucephaldra seems to like lowish light and high CO2 to thrive long-term, by which I mean last more than a couple of years. My main display tank is really a 'Dutch' tank in terms of light intensity and type of plant, plants need to be at least fairly fast in my high energy environment but I have successfully grown lower light less nutrient rich tanks in the past.
If Java fern is healthy green I don't think it is the water column - and bucephalandra and anubias are epiphytes so substrate is not key. Swords and Crypts tend to be really greedy root feeders in contrast. I would dose some Potassium and see what happens over a fortnight, hopefully Darrel will respond. You don't think snails or some half decent sized plecostamus might be the culprits?
You could use dry seed pellet peat based nutrient rich plugs - since they are dry, they can be pushed into existing aqua soil without making a real mess.
Floating plants 'speak' clearly, if they are green and healthy and spread irritatingly quickly there is no deficiency.
Thanks for the question, good luck and have a good night.
 
I wish I could tell you for sure, post a picture or two, Darrel is the real expert not me.
The RHS mention yellowing for just about every deficiency but on new leaves I always tend to suspect Iron but holes tend to be Potassium deficiency, I like a tank fertiliser high in Potassium, it gets exhausted in aquariums, fish waste is poor source. But honestly, you are one ahead of me growing bucephalandra and anubias, they just covered in bright green algae in my tank. Bucephaldra seems to like lowish light and high CO2 to thrive long-term, by which I mean last more than a couple of years. My main display tank is really a 'Dutch' tank in terms of light intensity and type of plant, plants need to be at least fairly fast in my high energy environment but I have successfully grown lower light less nutrient rich tanks in the past.
If Java fern is healthy green I don't think it is the water column - and bucephalandra and anubias are epiphytes so substrate is not key. Swords and Crypts tend to be really greedy root feeders in contrast. I would dose some Potassium and see what happens over a fortnight, hopefully Darrel will respond. You don't think snails or some half decent sized plecostamus might be the culprits?
You could use dry seed pellet peat based nutrient rich plugs - since they are dry, they can be pushed into existing aqua soil without making a real mess.
Floating plants 'speak' clearly, if they are green and healthy and spread irritatingly quickly there is no deficiency.
Thanks for the question, good luck and have a good night.
Yeah it's puzzling me because none of the other plants are showing anything I can recognise as a nutrient deficiency including the floating plants and why would it be the slowest growing plants that show a deficiency first. It's definitely not damage by snails or other algae eaters though because I can sometimes see that the holes have formed before the leaves have even fully opened. I think what happened was I increased the light without a proportionate increase in nutrients and this tipped the buces over the edge into deficiency. I'm lowering light and increasing feeding with Dennerle plant care pro.
 
the emergent (not the wisteria) is actually red mangrove. So its not fully aquatic, i guess its technically not "emergent". By capsules, do you mean micro? CSM+B is what I dose. I usually dose right into water column, I add root tabs once in a while. I feel that my issue is urgent, and am not sure if root tab will be noticeable quickly.
 
the emergent (not the wisteria) is actually red mangrove. So its not fully aquatic, i guess its technically not "emergent". By capsules, do you mean micro? CSM+B is what I dose. I usually dose right into water column, I add root tabs once in a while. I feel that my issue is urgent, and am not sure if root tab will be noticeable quickly.
I agree, root tabs I meant with macro and micro nutrients, slow release, osmocote type, absolutely take real time to impact, and patience with plants is often key. Rarely is plant care an urgent matter. Plants can't have heart attacks, though obviously sticking a tropical plant out in the frost will kill it, but most problems with plants are best thought of, if we are going down the path of medical analogy, which I am, like non-aggressive cancers, slow.
I only act fast for issues that put my fish and shrimps in danger, low oxygen, high temperature, pathogens and excessive CO2.
Plants are seasonal and rarely are a risk from short term factors, even if I am on holiday and my son forgets to open the curtains for few days so long as it isn't for a prolonged period, the house plants recover, or almost recover, before I get home.
Foliar feeding in the garden in the summer, works very quickly, and only works during the growing season peak, the effects of foliar feeding can sometimes be seen in days, water column dosing in the tank is much the same in timescale, but as in the garden it is easy to do more harm than good with a foliar feed. And further, a fish tank is not hydroponics, to state the obvious, the leaves are in the water, so attempts at quick water feeding solutions often favour algae if light and CO2 are deficient or light is excessive, normally duration not intensity, with of course, some exceptions for shade loving plants.
A good dose of Potassium will not excessively encourage algae (but with slow growing plants any 'fix' will take time to become apparent) however, if lack of Potassium is the issue it will be utilised by the epiphyte plants so long as there is an adequate total amount of other macro nutrients and trace elements. Adequate of course and excessive are important terms and it is ever so easy to overdo nutrients, especially macro nutrients. I have certainly added macro fertiliser to see Nitrate rise from <10ppm to >80 and then have to do a 50% water change, everyday for several days to prevent an algae soup developing. Slowly slowly catchy monkey.
Thank you for telling me the plant is a Mangrove, high humidity is needed, as the plant reaches further from the evaporation at the meniscus/surface water level and closer to the light, it is, I suspect, drying out. Mangroves strictly speaking are actually emergent, woody and do grow leaves underwater but they tend to shed them as they increase their total volume of atmospheric leaves, Red Mangroves do well in freshwater, but they need lots of intense light so take care dialling down your lights. You might consider an ultrasound mist maker. I keep meaning to get one myself, my Bacopa, Indian Fern and Ludwigia dry out at the tips once they get a few inches above the top of the tank.
You said your floating plants are healthy, therefore you are doing almost everything to create the right conditions.
Good luck.
 
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Hi all,
is actually red mangrove
I wondered what it was, but now you've told me? I can see it's Red Mangrove (Rhizophora mangle).
Dosing EI using various methods, and heavily (2x or more), micro via with csm+b
In that case I might cut down on the dosing for a while, just in case it is nutrient toxicity, rather than nutrient deficiency.
Also started dosing equilibrium recently.
We have a thread <"Seachem method of potassium dosing">.
<"Seachem Equilibrium"> is an interesting product. I think it is a <"potassium (K) based">, <"polysulphate fertiliser rebranded">, but we don't have any proof, and Seachem won't tell you. We have a thread - <"Seachem method of potassium dosing">, that might be of interest.
Analysis below.
1699292526968-png-png.217328

Vendors will try and imply that fertilisers and remineralisers are different products, but an ion, is an ion, is an ion, they don't know where they came from.
Darrel is the real expert not me.
Unfortunately I'm not, the problem is the <"multifactorial nature"> of plant growth, with the potential <"interaction between"> some of the fourteen essential mineral nutrients, even when they are all present.

cheers Darrel
 
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