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Need help with Lush Max ferts

xim said:
Lowering the pH, even by using distilled vinegar instead of water, just delayed the precipitation by hours.
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You must add preservative of some form as the chelated elements are a fantastic food source for microbes who will quickly start munching (within a day or two) and raising the pH and allowing the elements to unchelate, they will then either precipitate out or provide yet more food source for happy microbes.

The graph below shows the % chelation vs pH. As you see just mixing Fe-DPTA with even slightly hard water (above 7) will allow the Fe out to react with the phosphate (or be eaten by microbes).
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ian_m said:
You must add preservative of some form as the chelated elements are a fantastic food source for microbes who will quickly start munching (within a day or two) and raising the pH and allowing the elements to unchelate, they will then either precipitate out or provide yet more food source for happy microbes.

The graph below shows the % chelation vs pH. As you see just mixing Fe-DPTA with even slightly hard water (above 7) will allow the Fe out to react with the phosphate (or be eaten by microbes).
Click to expand...

Well, I know that graph well. I've been making my micro mix for nearly ten years. I have key chemicals for Fe, Mn, B, Mo, Zn, Cu, preservatives and pH adjuster in hand to create my own mix.

Anyway, the pH of the solution that the 7% Fe-DTPA got precipitated within minutes was 6. That's why I determined it was of low quality. It should not have precipitated at that pH. Using distilled vinegar in place of water in the later experiment was just to be sure that it's bad. And it was bad.

I think a good way to test if your micros is good enough is try using it to make an all-in-one. If it precipitates, that micros is not good enough even for micros-macros alternate day dosing.
 
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I'm running a test at the moment on 2 seperate mixes using DTPA solely in one and the EDDHA/DTPA mix in the other. Also using tap water (hard Lincolnshire water here) to try and replicate the OPs problem.

Should also be noted that while tap water will be almost neutral straight out of the tap it is quite often because of the added CO2 to achieve that near neutral figure and after gas off My Tap water is 8.4 after 24 hours rather than the 7.6 straight from the tap.

Could phosphate be reacting on it's own at that high Ph without needing to react with the iron?
 
So did 4 trials:
A Tap water + EDDHA + Phos
B Tap water + DTPA + Phos
C DI water + EDDHA + Phos
D DI water + DTPA + Phos.

My tap water is good old Lincolnshire Jurassic Ridge water. 19KH!!!

A showed the reaction as described earlier within a couple of hours
B showed no reaction to date (5 weeks old now.)
C showed a reaction not as bad as A but still had a bit of that build up in the bottom after 24 hours and looks the same today.
D showed no reaction to date (5 weeks old now.)

So the poster above saying that it must be bad quality chelate must have been right. The EEDHA is supposed to be fine up to 10Ph yet was breaking down in the hard tap water and even in the DI was not lasting. As a result I have stopped using the EDDHA and am now using 100% DTPA.
 
So the chelator problem is not limited to some DTPA, but EDDHA as well, which is good to know. I'm glad your DTPA works. 🙂
 
Did you resolve this mate?

I’ve bought some and have the same issue as you.

I’ve used deionised water as instructed but it seems to be upsetting the tank balance and not working well and water during changes is a greeny colour so I guess it’s not being used.

I’m dosing 2ml a day per 100l.


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Hey there unfortunately it didn’t I kinda gave up with it plus I don’t know if it was making any difference to my plants or not

However I did try filtered boiling water that seemed to work much better than normal water so worth a shot
 
bhavik said:
Hey there unfortunately it didn’t I kinda gave up with it plus I don’t know if it was making any difference to my plants or not

However I did try filtered boiling water that seemed to work much better than normal water so worth a shot
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Interesting thank you.

Like I said I used DI as stated bought for batteries - water for them.

I might stop it for a few weeks and see if anything changes. I’ve been using it auto dosing and my fish have slowly started disappearing more and getting upset :/ a few runny nose swimming upside down etc which is bizarre. My levels for ammonia etc are all stable so this is the only difference.

Anybody else had a problem with ferts making fish die after swimming oddly? I thought it was infection so dosed the tank with anti fungal and anti bac and water changes too. Today after two weeks I noticed another Rummy Nose swimming upside down.


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Something Fishy said:
Interesting thank you.

Like I said I used DI as stated bought for batteries - water for them.

I might stop it for a few weeks and see if anything changes. I’ve been using it auto dosing and my fish have slowly started disappearing more and getting upset :/ a few runny nose swimming upside down etc which is bizarre. My levels for ammonia etc are all stable so this is the only difference.

Anybody else had a problem with ferts making fish die after swimming oddly? I thought it was infection so dosed the tank with anti fungal and anti bac and water changes too. Today after two weeks I noticed another Rummy Nose swimming upside down.


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What dosage are you using and what tank size. Are all the ingredients in your solution dissolved? Is this freshly made with the whole packet being mixed with 1litre or are you making up smaller amounts not using the whole packet?
 
SuperColey1 said:
What dosage are you using and what tank size. Are all the ingredients in your solution dissolved? Is this freshly made with the whole packet being mixed with 1litre or are you making up smaller amounts not using the whole packet?
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Hey!

Whole packet as per instructions with DI water. Shook till all dissolved and went black.

Day or two later it was a kinda teddy brown with sediment at the bottom so reshook it.

Same in a few days.

Tank is 80l and sump is about 40l but 30 or so full. So 110l roughly and I’m dosing 2ml every day.


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Something Fishy said:
Hey!

Whole packet as per instructions with DI water. Shook till all dissolved and went black.

Day or two later it was a kinda teddy brown with sediment at the bottom so reshook it.

Same in a few days.

Tank is 80l and sump is about 40l but 30 or so full. So 110l roughly and I’m dosing 2ml every day.


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I've posted in your tank thread now 😉
 
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