N concentrations vs dosing targets

[Happi]

@blairgerman before we start worrying about the ratios, we need to worry about the water parameters first, such as PH, KH, CO3.

Ratios and type of chemicals being used as fertilizer can play a major role for plant health. Ratios also play an important role on weather certain nutrients are at risk of being prectipated, oxidized or available to plants. But you do not have to have them perfectly aligned to grow the aquatic plants, in fact majority of the hobbyists cannot do it because of their unpredictable water parameters. Some nutrients are more forgiving when it comes to ratios.

But, once you master these skills, you will start to understand the importance of ratios. You do not have to be chemist or scientist to achieve these goals.

 

[blairgerman]

@Happi
That's where I'm at then and I will disregard these till I'm more experienced. I will focus on changing some of the poor practices brought to my attention here, such as use of baking soda, etc and focus on more carefully monitoring plant growth. This certainly is the place to learn and grow, I'm so glad @Hanuman invited me here, you guys' responses of are a very supportive and encouraging quality, thank you @Happi !

 

[MichaelJ]

We are growing plants for pleasure, not to make our life a living hell with numbers and lab precision weights/ratios.

Hi @Hanuman, I wish you would have told me that before I rushed out and bought a new scale to weight my fertilizers:




Joking aside, definitely agree with you, but I do not necessarily think it needs to be that complicated to take ratios and quantities into account if you are already working with RO water, dry salts and good micro blends. The extra effort to make the ratios and all that work is very little extra effort as far as I can tell. Of course, a good off-the-shelf AIO and reasonable tap water can still enable you to grow nice plants... and most of us agree on that. It's all complementary., and definitely something we all have to keep in mind when giving advice especially to beginners.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Hanuman]

Regarding Kh, I think it's higher in the tank than at tap cuz i add baking soda at wc, right? I do plan to discontinue this practice, but only after sorting this one variable I'm changed (the micros).

Yeap definitely not necessary to add carbonates to the water unless some of your inhabitant require it. It's just unnecessary and might well be making things worse for you.

Regardless, I have about ~30 hours using your calculator these past few weeks, so just thanks so much for that.

Don't get too caught up in fertilizers. Look at the essential first: CO2, light.

@Hanuman invited me here, you guys' responses of are a very supportive and encouraging quality, thank you @Happi !

No worries. Yes PT forum is a joke in my opinion.

Hi @Hanuman, I wish you would have told me that before I rushed out and bought a new scale to weight my fertilizers:

Looks like a fancy scale for a cheap price. Mine was more expensive and looks less fancy but it does allow up to 500Gr weights.

but I do not necessarily think it needs to be that complicated to take ratios and quantities into account if you are already working with RO water, dry salts and good micro blends. The extra effort to make the ratios and all that work is very little extra effort as far as I can tell.

Agree, not much effort, however I don't think that fine tuning ratios and whatnot will make a drastic change to plants. I'll be honest, I NEVER look at ratios when setting or changing my ferts and I don't think I have problems with plants. I mostly look at 2 main factors: CO2 and light and KH. Ferts are secondary for me and I just add enough or in excess so to remove that from the equation. Perhaps tweaking ratios in harder water makes more sense but in soft water I think it's just a waste of time. Cloning any commercial fertilizer out there will work and they all have different ratios. As Happy said, it's more important to focus on water parameters first before going down the rabbit hole of ratios. Also something to keep in mind is that as much we have targets in mind, the reality in the tank can and will be different due to human errors, volume discrepancies, soil that contains nutrients, CEC, WC volumes and so on. All this skews the pretty numbers we calculated from the beginning and targets we have set for the tank. That's why once in a while I like to to massive WC (90%) to somewhat reset things.

 

[blairgerman]

Hi @Hanuman, I wish you would have told me that before I rushed out and bought a new scale to weight my fertilizers:

View attachment 201721


Joking aside, definitely agree with you, but I do not necessarily think it needs to be that complicated to take ratios and quantities into account if you are already working with RO water, dry salts and good micro blends. The extra effort to make the ratios and all that work is very little extra effort as far as I can tell. Of course, a good off-the-shelf AIO and reasonable tap water can still enable you to grow nice plants... and most of us agree on that. It's all complementary., and definitely something we all have to keep in mind when giving advice especially to beginners.

Cheers,
Michael

Okay, yes i went ahead and purchased this scale you recommended, thanks for the advice! I will update you my outcomes from the .0030g Cu to .0020g Mo ratio. Glad i saved up for this hobby, thanks!

 

[blairgerman]

@Hanuman my cardinals will probably prefer soft anyway. I will update here after sorting what happened with my micro change. I will do more research on my co2 offgassing and my controller's ability to maintain levels... a lower kh will need a lower set point anyway. Thanks for everything!

 

[_Maq_]

Nothing wrong in having a little extra carbonates in the water as long as it’s consistent.

yes it for buffering... to avoid needing a swing from 7.5 to 6.2 to get 30ppm CO2

You'd get better results with less carbonates and 10 ppm CO2. Better for plants and your fish alike.

 

[blairgerman]

You'd get better results with less carbonates and 10 ppm CO2. Better for plants and your fish alike.

What do you think about using these potassium bicarbonate and magnesium carbonate as discussed earlier with @X3NiTH ? At the very moment I will be continuing to manipulate the one independent variable, my micros, and get outcomes back to where they were before I messed with that, but when I start making changes to my wc prep and macros I'm guessing my plan is to discontinue sodium bicarbonate and end up with 2 kh tank water, but then i wonder if i should stick with the MgSO4 i've been using in my macros (apparently at a very low .33ppm if i'm using the ifc calc right - the tank gets .13g MgSO4 per day in the afternoon) ... or switch to magnesium carbonate instead, as discussed... Also discussed, with you, to reduce my co2 which would happen naturally if my tank kh goes to 2 and I keep my ph controller set point at 6.5pm giving concentration of 14ppm co2. Is the potassium bicarbonate better than using the K2SO4? and magnesium carbonate better than MgSO4? I think the concern here was sulfates in my tap water report.

 

[_Maq_]

I think the concern here was sulfates in my tap water report.

Sulfates and chlorides are generally considered benign and I don't know of any negative effects.
Using potassium carbonate for increasing alkalinity is possible but impractical. You'd end up with excess potassium relative to magnesium and calcium which leads to defective growth.
Excess calcium is the least harmful option. If you insist on maintaining 2 °dKH, using CaCO3 and/or MgCO3 is the best option. They are slowly soluble, though, so your tank will get cloudy for several hours. It's harmless.
Your "independent variable, your micros": You'll see the benefits of low alkalinity namely in dosing micros. Bicarbonates are the main source of difficulties. Due to them, people are forced to use advanced chelates for iron. Me, I don't use any chelates for any element.

 

[blairgerman]

Sulfates and chlorides are generally considered benign and I don't know of any negative effects.
Using potassium carbonate for increasing alkalinity is possible but impractical. You'd end up with excess potassium relative to magnesium and calcium which leads to defective growth.
Excess calcium is the least harmful option. If you insist on maintaining 2 °dKH, using CaCO3 and/or MgCO3 is the best option. They are slowly soluble, though, so your tank will get cloudy for several hours. It's harmless.
Your "independent variable, your micros": You'll see the benefits of low alkalinity namely in dosing micros. Bicarbonates are the main source of difficulties. Due to them, people are forced to use advanced chelates for iron. Me, I don't use any chelates for any element.

Thanks @_Maq_ , I will discontinue adding stuff for buffering to my premix and I will maintain the 2dKH alkalinity from my tap into my tank water. My wc's will have only dechlorinator from now on. I will continue the MgSO4 in my macros mix and try to keep this amount above the Ca I see in my tap water report. Really appreciate your time on this, thank you. I am also open to any other feedback on the matter regarding carbonates such as have been mentioned, but it sounds like they're problematic. I will also pay more attention to co2 and light.