My Rant of Facebook and Other Sites Advice

[ObiTonyKenobi]

Like many on here I like to help people with their aquascapes and aquariums, but I have to say the vast misinformation from so called experts is irritating and just angering.
Some of the recent nonsense I have heard and argued with:

• Beneficial Bacteria lives on the substrate, not your filter. It's ok to clean your filter monthly because the majority of the beneficial bacteria live on plants and substrate. That is why large water changes are bad for your tank.
• Fertilizers cause algae.

-Lights cause algae
-Seachem Flourish line of fertilizers is the best there is. All the all-in-ones are bad (I honestly think I was arguing with Sechem marketers based on the BS they were all spewing)
-Father Fish has a formula for substrate that never gets depleted of nutrients and doesnt require you to use fertilizers... on the same line water changes are bad because he said so and he never does them.

The misinformation never stops, especially from these "I been in the hobby for 30 years".

It is just sad because many will just give up with this bad advice and leave the hobby. I told one person to come to UKAPS and read the advice given there. The response from someone else - "That is a forum from experts, we are beginners". Exactly, you beginners are just repeating the same bad advice told to another beginner from another beginner. I have to say that I also have to blame manufactures in the hobby. There is no regulation or any body to regulate what is fish oil and what is true.

I tell myself to just ignore the posts, but I have to say sometimes I just can't help it

 

[castle]

Are you trolling? 😅

 

[swyftfeet]

Beneficial Bacteria lives on the substrate, not your filter.

This seems partially correct to me. It lives everywhere in your tank.

It's ok to clean your filter monthly because the majority of the beneficial bacteria live on plants and substrate.

This seems correct to me.

That is why large water changes are bad for your tank.

This seems wrong to me

Fertilizers cause algae.
-Lights cause algae

Too much of either are the leading causes of algae breakout.

 

[ObiTonyKenobi]

This seems partially correct to me. It lives everywhere in your tank.

Yes, there is bacteria everywhere in your tank, but the majority lives in your filter. They also all need a surface to hold on to, none can reproduce in a free-swimming mode. They also need fast turbulent water. Which is what the filter provides. Remove the filter from your tank and let me know how fast the ammonia starts going up.It's ok to clean your filter monthly because the majority of the beneficial bacteria live on plants and substrate.

It's ok to clean your filter monthly because the majority of the beneficial bacteria live on plants and substrate.

Again, the majority of you bacteria is in your filter. Clean your filter and give it a scrub down. You will end up with cloudy water - a bacterial bloom as you have basically have reset your cycle.

Too much of either are the leading causes of algae breakout.

No, Ammonia and CO2 issues are the cause of algae. Algae spores can't do anything with fertilizers. It is when you have bacteria feeding on organics that they release ammonia that triggers the ammonia spores to "grow up". That is the whole point of the water change, to get rid of organics.

Light will cause bacteria if you don't feed your plants to meet demand of the light and of course the CO2 isn't there to keep up. Have the light set high, you better fertilize more and provide CO2. That is why on non-CO2 tanks the lights should be ket on the low side. The plants can't do anything with that excess light other than stress themselves because the don't have the CO2 and nutrients to carry out photosynthesis

 

[Andy Pierce]

Remove the filter from your tank and let me know how fast the ammonia starts going up.

Well, it's whatever works for you really. I (and others) have a low tech aquarium that doesn't have a filter and I have no complaints about ammonia. I have a high-tech tank with an under-substrate filter that I haven't changed in years now so whether it's doing anything could be debated. It most definitely does not have any fast turbulent water flowing through the substrate. There are likely several different paths to reasonable success.

 

[_Maq_]

@ObiTonyKenobi , this is a community whose many members have considerable experience in this hobby, maintain awareness of related scientific literature, and some are professionals in related sciences. Some of us even don't hesitate to test experimentally various theories, beliefs & myths.
In light of that, with respect to your statements, it seems unlikely that you'll gain much following here.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Rant away, I <"do every so often">.

It is just sad because many will just give up with this bad advice and leave the hobby. .

Agreed, I think that is an issue.

FB (and some forums) are often <"just echo chambers"> where the <"same misinformation is repeated"> and then regarded as validated. The problem, in some ways, is too much information and how do you tell the <"coffee from froth"> or <"wheat from chaff"> ?

told one person to come to UKAPS and read the advice given there.

That is always <"my recommendation">, although <"I maybe both biased"> and use this forum as a <"form of therapy">.

The response from someone else - "That is a forum from experts, we are beginners".

That was partially why the <"Duckweed Index was developed">, all the scary (interesting) bits are hidden under the hood (bonnet). That is also why I point people towards the <"Seasoned Tank Time"> video, it doesn't try to baffle you with science, but just cuts <"straight to the chase">.

I have to say that I also have to blame manufactures in the hobby. There is no regulation or any body to regulate what is fish oil and what is true.

<"Same for me">. As well as the competition to sell the <"world's most expensive water"> we also seem to have the competition to get away with <"telling the biggest untruth"> and it <"really, really p*sses me off">.

Seachem Flourish line of fertilizers is the best there is. All the all-in-ones are bad (I honestly think I was arguing with Sechem marketers based on the BS they were all spewing)

I have a bit of an <"issue with Seachem">.

Beneficial Bacteria lives on the substrate, not your filter. It's ok to clean your filter monthly because the majority of the beneficial bacteria live on plants and substrate..........

Yes, there is bacteria everywhere in your tank, but the majority lives in your filter. They also all need a surface to hold on to, none can reproduce in a free-swimming mode. They also need fast turbulent water. Which is what the filter provides. Remove the filter from your tank and let me know how fast the ammonia starts going up.It's ok to clean your filter monthly because the majority of the beneficial bacteria live on plants and substrate.

That is sort of a "yes and no" one. This is <"back to oxygen"> as the <"prime metric in nitrification">. Assuming that you have <"any trace of ammonia"> nitrification occurs anywhere there is a biofilm and oxygen and is <"carried out by a huge range of micro-organisms">, many of which we have only recently discovered.

I (and others) have a low tech aquarium that doesn't have a filter and I have no complaints about ammonia.

The other real difference is plants, and <"plant / microbe biofiltration"> is a lot more effective than "microbe only" biofiltration. If you don't have plants (or you have <"insane stocking rates">) you need your filter to be working efficiently.

cheers Darrel

 

[LMuhlen]

No, Ammonia and CO2 issues are the cause of algae. Algae spores can't do anything with fertilizers. It is when you have bacteria feeding on organics that they release ammonia that triggers the ammonia spores to "grow up". That is the whole point of the water change, to get rid of organics.

What I learned and am constantly reminded when reading about our hobby is that "hard facts" never seem to hold their ground for long. Simple models simply don't explain everything. Most are just too easy to disprove. There is way too much going on behind the scenes for us to be so sure about something. This example I quoted is one of those. Some people add ammonia to the tank as a fertilizer. Some commercial branded fertilizers have ammonia in them. Users don't necessarily have issues with algae, not more than anyone else.

So if not the ammonia, then maybe the organics themselves are the ones triggering algae? Or maybe it is the microbes that feed on organics? Maybe it is all indirect causation. Maybe the excess of microbes consuming organics replace other microbes which were competing with algae and keeping them in check?

As a rule I try to give broad suggestions when helping someone. Keep the tank clean, strive for stability... Otherwise a simple test may discredit the entire affirmation, even if it is much more right than wrong.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Simple models simply don't explain everything. Most are just too easy to disprove.

That really is the way that <"science progresses"> - <"Excess nutrient doesn’t cause algae growth?">.

So if not the ammonia, then maybe the organics themselves are the ones triggering algae? Or maybe it is the microbes that feed on organics? Maybe it is all indirect causation. Maybe the excess of microbes consuming organics replace other microbes which were competing with algae and keeping them in check?

And that is the problem in a nut-shell. We are in a <"shades of grey world"> with <"multiple interacting factors">.

strive for stability... Otherwise a simple test may discredit the entire affirmation, even if it is much more right than wrong.

We don't know <"why stability works">, but it definitely <"seems to work"> - <"Walstad">. As your plants grow in stability increases, again we don't know exactly why.

I think that this maybe some of the reason <"Lighting for emersed Echinodorus">

cheers Darrel

 

[castle]

Hi all,

That really is the way that <"science progresses"> - <"Excess nutrient doesn’t cause algae growth?">.

And that is the problem in a nut-shell. We are in a <"shades of grey world"> with <"multiple interacting factors">.

We don't know <"why stability works">, but it definitely <"seems to work"> - <"Walstad">. As your plants grow in stability increases, again we don't know exactly why.

I think that this maybe some of the reason <"Lighting for emersed Echinodorus">

View attachment 211552

cheers Darrel

I didn’t get a chance to take any photos, but the Alocasia roots in my most recent tank grew to 3ft. That aquarium didn’t have a filter running for 3 months, and the fish had never been healthier.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

but the Alocasia roots in my most recent tank grew to 3ft.

Alocasia would be ideal as an emergent plant for a high nutrient tank <"or aquaponics">. Taro (<"Colocasia esculenta">) would be another (cheaply obtainable) option, but equally rampant. @hydrophyte grew number of <"different Aroids in the past"> and might be able to offer some pointers?

A chunky plant, <"rooted in the substrate">, <"but with emergent leaves">, would have been even better for the <"Duckweed Index"> than <"a floating plant">, but they just aren't suitable for every aquarium. Same applies to trickle filters, <"optimal but noisy">.

That aquarium didn’t have a filter running for 3 months, and the fish had never been healthier.

It should work pretty well as <"life support system">, even <"just planted in the tank">. Planted trickle filters ("horizontal or <"vertical flow constructed wetlands">) have <"huge biofiltration capacities">.

cheers Darrel