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Moving on from PPS Pro

E

Epos7

New Member
Joined
20 Oct 2024
Messages
12
Location
USA
Hi all. First time poster, but I've been reading for a while. I have two high tech tanks - a 90L and a 90P. Both have been up and running for about 18 months.

I've been auto-dosing daily with PPS Pro, but I haven't had the greatest results. Both tanks seem to consistently suffer from black beard algae, something I haven't been able to control despite my best efforts. Both tanks have 6.5 hours of lights-on time daily. Both are CO2 injected to drop the pH from~6.2 to ~5.2. I use RO water and remineralize with APT Sky.

The tanks are fairly well stocked with fish, so I've been wondering if I need to try to take fish waste into account. I've been using the IFC Fert Calculator, and APT1 seems to reduce nitrates and phosphates compared to APT 3. One thing I noticed about the PPS Pro formula is it keeps Phosphates very low compared to APT 3 and the NilocG formulas. Is that due to PPS Pro being a bit older and from a time when excess phosphates were believed to be a primary cause of algae? I wasn't quite sure what formula would be a good starting point, so I tried to come up with something that would be in between APT 1 and APT 3.

MACROS
500mL distilled water
20g Potassium Nitrate
6.5g Monopotassium Phosphate
  • Too much? PPS pro recipe much less phosphate…but APT3 more
25g Potassium Sulfate
30g Potassium Chloride
20g Magnesium Chloride
20g Magnesium Sulfate
1737402940021.png
MICROS
500mL distilled water
7.5g GLA Micromix
1mL nickel solution (0.9g NISO4, 100mL H2O - not accounted for in IFC calc)
1737402977845.png
How did I do? Does this seem like a reasonable starting point for tanks with a lot of plants and fish? Plants are a mix of fast-growing stems, slow-growing bucephalandra and anubias, and some stuff in the middle like java ferns, blyxa japonica, etc.
 
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I should add that I have a third tank - low-tech, with the only major difference being it doesn't have CO2 injection. It has a rather powerful light, and a similar mixture of plants. I fertilize it with APT 3 rather than PPS Pro like my high-tech tank. It has virtually no algae issues to speak of. Same RO water, same APT Sky treatment. I even do water changes far less frequently on it than my two high-tech tanks, yet it looks the best. The two main differences are lack of CO2, and different fertilizers.
 
Hi all,
Welcome to UKAPS,
Epos7 said:
I've been using the IFC Fert Calculator
Click to expand...
Epos7 said:
I use RO water and remineralize with APT Sky.
Click to expand...
You can use the IFC calculator for your remineraliser as well. I'm sure that "APT Sky" is fine, but its an expensive option <"2Hr Aquarist APT SKY">.
Epos7 said:
and APT1 seems to reduce nitrates and phosphates compared to APT 3. One thing I noticed about the PPS Pro formula is it keeps Phosphates very low compared to APT 3 and the NilocG formulas. Is that due to PPS Pro being a bit older and from a time when excess phosphates were believed to be a primary cause of algae?
Click to expand...
I think there was a desire to keep PO4--- low in the original <"PPS Pro recipe"> - <"Perpetual Preservation System - PPS-Pro">.

Have a look at <"Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination">.

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
You can use the IFC calculator for your remineraliser as well. I'm sure that "APT Sky" is fine, but its an expensive option <"2Hr Aquarist APT SKY">.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'll probably take a shot at that once my APT Sky runs out. I bought the big bag, should last for another year I think. One thing I like about APT Sky vs similar products I've tried like Salty Shrimp is the APT Sky is a very fine powder so it dissolves much easier.
dw1305 said:
Have a look at <"Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination">.
Click to expand...
Is there a benefit to using Solufeed over separate salts? I'm in the US unfortunately and it doesn't look like Solufeed is available here.

Thanks!
 
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It sounds like I don't need to worry too much about ratios. Maybe I should just stick with PPS Pro? I already have all the raw salts, so I'm in no hurry to buy anything new. Something I've been doing is not working, so I thought to try different nutrient ratios. I definitely supplying all 14 though.
 
@Epos7 Below is a list of basic chemicals you can use to create your own mix. These chemicals can also be sourced from other suppliers or websites. When it comes to addressing your plant issues, the solution is more complex than simply eliminating PPS. Anyway, If you'd like, you can also add urea to your fertilizer list.

1737568236248.png

If you're interested, we can adjust and refine your dosing approach?
 
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Happi said:
@Epos7 Below is a list of basic chemicals you can use to create your own mix. These chemicals can also be sourced from other suppliers or websites. When it comes to addressing your plant issues, the solution is more complex than simply eliminating PPS. Anyway, If you'd like, you can also add urea to your fertilizer list.

If you're interested, we can adjust and refine your dosing approach?
Click to expand...

Thanks Happi, I already have all these salts as they're part of PPS Pro.

I don't have urea yet. That is one thing I could add.

I mixed up the solution outlined in my OP and have been using that for a few days. I'm very appreciative of any feedback on the dosing approach/ratios.
 
1000015889.jpg
1000015886.jpg
Couple photos of my 90P. It was taken over by BBA, so I meticulously cleaned and rescaped it six weeks ago. Even with 2x weekly 50% water changes the BBA is already back. There are a lot more stem plants than it appears - they had reached the surface so I just trimmed them back and most are hidden behind the rocks currently.
 
Current schedule for the 90P:

7:00AM: CO2 on
1:00PM: macros dosed
1:05PM: micros dosed
1:30PM: lights on
2:00PM: lights reach max brightness (70%)
7:00PM: CO2 off
7:30PM: lights start dimming
8:00PM: lights off

So currently getting 6.5 hours of light/day, with 5.5 hours of that at peak brightness (70%).

When CO2 comes on in the morning, tank pH is ~6.3. When it reaches peak concentration in the afternoon, pH is ~5.3.

I do 50% water changes at least weekly, and TDS typically rises from ~120ppm to ~180ppm over a week.

Substrate is Aquario Neo aquasoil capped with fine sand.
 
These are some of my measurements from last month while still using the PPS Pro formula. The first measurement was right before a water change.

1737676078305.png
 
Epos7 said:
Thanks Happi, I already have all these salts as they're part of PPS Pro.

I don't have urea yet. That is one thing I could add.

I mixed up the solution outlined in my OP and have been using that for a few days. I'm very appreciative of any feedback on the dosing approach/ratios.
Click to expand...
just wanted to verify which one of these Micros do you have? GLA (EDTA) Micromix Aquarium Fertilizer or GLA (EDTA+DTPA) Micromix Aquarium Fertilizer and the second one is basically Plant-Prod
Epos7 said:
View attachment 226233
View attachment 226234
Couple photos of my 90P. It was taken over by BBA, so I meticulously cleaned and rescaped it six weeks ago. Even with 2x weekly 50% water changes the BBA is already back. There are a lot more stem plants than it appears - they had reached the surface so I just trimmed them back and most are hidden behind the rocks currently.
Click to expand...
My initial impression is that your aquarium lacks sufficient plant mass, and it seems you may be dosing more nutrients than necessary for the number of plants present. If the test results for iron are accurate, your aquarium contains a high level of iron in certain situations. Personally, I'm not a big fan of premixed micronutrient, but for now, I’d recommend sticking with the GLA (EDTA+DTPA) Micromix Aquarium Fertilizer
 

You could try something like this for Micros and Macros: split the doses and aim for 1–2 ppm of N weekly and about 0.1 ppm of Fe weekly. With low plant mass, I’d recommend sticking to 1 ppm of N weekly. Adjust the Ca and Mg levels as needed—I typically maintain Ca at 10 ppm and Mg at 3–4 ppm, but you can double or triple these values if required. Be sure to adjust the 20 ml dose, as it’s specifically designed for 50 gallons of water.​

​

50-Gallon RO Water Mineralization​


  • 5.7 grams of CaSO₄·2H₂O (Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate):
    • Ca (Calcium): 7
    • S (Sulfur): 5.6
    • dGH: 0.98
  • 2.08 grams of CaCl₂·2H₂O (Calcium Chloride Dihydrate):
    • Ca (Calcium): 3
    • Cl (Chloride): 5.3
    • dGH: 0.42
  • 5.76 grams of MgSO₄·7H₂O (Magnesium Sulfate Heptahydrate):
    • Mg (Magnesium): 3
    • S (Sulfur): 4
    • dGH: 0.7

Micros #1​


500 ml solution, dose 20 ml per 50 gallons:

  • Ingredients:
    • 6.76 grams of PlantiProd Chelated or GLA EDTA+DTPA Micromix - Chelated Micronutrient Fertilizer
  • Micronutrient breakdown:
    • Fe (Iron): 0.1 (as EDTA: 0.06, as DTPA: 0.02)
    • Mn (Manganese): 0.0285
    • Zn (Zinc): 0.0057
    • Cu (Copper): 0.00143
    • B (Boron): 0.0185
    • Mo (Molybdenum): 0.00086


Macros #2​


500 ml solution, dose 20 ml per 50 gallons:

  • Ingredients:
    • 17.0 grams KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate)
      • NO3: 2.21
      • N: 0.5
      • K: 1.4
    • 5.07 grams Urea CO(NH2)2
      • N: 0.5
    • 2.71 grams KH2PO4 (Monopotassium Phosphate)
      • PO4: 0.4
      • P: 0.13
      • K: 0.16
 
Hi,
You can gets salts from NilocG in the US
Seeing that there commercial ferts are the cheapest and best value on the market (if you not paying import tax) if you can get the easy/cheap well worth using you old ferts and use the IFC to boost N or P as you wish, then when all your ferts used up go on to making your own

NilocG commercial AIO ferts also worth a look at IMO
 
Hi all,
Epos7 said:
Couple photos of my 90P. It was taken over by BBA, so I meticulously cleaned and rescaped it six weeks ago. Even with 2x weekly 50% water changes the BBA is already back. There are a lot more stem plants than it appears - they had reached the surface so I just trimmed them back and most are hidden behind the rocks currently.
Click to expand...
Happi said:
My initial impression is that your aquarium lacks sufficient plant mass, and it seems you may be dosing more nutrients than necessary for the number of plants present.
Click to expand...
I think @Happi my have a point. Although I really like your <"green rocks">.
Epos7 said:
It was taken over by BBA, so I meticulously cleaned and rescaped it six weeks ago. Even with 2x weekly 50% water changes the BBA is already back
Click to expand...
We don't know what causes BBA to "outbreak". Ramshorn Snail (Planorbella duryi) grazing <"removes it in the long term">, but doesn't remove the extant tufts.

cheers Darrel
 
Happi said:
just wanted to verify which one of these Micros do you have? GLA (EDTA) Micromix Aquarium Fertilizer or GLA (EDTA+DTPA) Micromix Aquarium Fertilizer and the second one is basically Plant-Prod

My initial impression is that your aquarium lacks sufficient plant mass, and it seems you may be dosing more nutrients than necessary for the number of plants present. If the test results for iron are accurate, your aquarium contains a high level of iron in certain situations. Personally, I'm not a big fan of premixed micronutrient, but for now, I’d recommend sticking with the GLA (EDTA+DTPA) Micromix Aquarium Fertilizer
Click to expand...
I have the EDTA + DTPA micros 🙂

I think you may be right about the plant mass. I tried to stuff as much in there as possible - I probably have ~100 stems and then another 30 or so bucephalandra/anubias. The buce/anubias fell victim to the BBA pretty quickly and its growth has been really suppressed. I think my plant mass would improve if I could keep things healthy, but unfortunately many plants succumb to the BBA. I have three types of floating plants to suck up excess nutrients, and they'll cover the surface of the tank within a week or two if I let them. I usually try to keep them under control so there's still plenty of surface movement.
 
Zeus. said:
Hi,
You can gets salts from NilocG in the US
Seeing that there commercial ferts are the cheapest and best value on the market (if you not paying import tax) if you can get the easy/cheap well worth using you old ferts and use the IFC to boost N or P as you wish, then when all your ferts used up go on to making your own

NilocG commercial AIO ferts also worth a look at IMO
Click to expand...
Thanks! Yes, I'm aware of NilocG. I have some of their root tabs. I think their salts are pretty similar to the Green Leaf Aquariums salts, which I purchased for PPS Pro a couple years ago. I still have plenty of those left, so I'll plan to use them up unless there's a significant advantage to using something else.
 
dw1305 said:
I think @Happi my have a point. Although I really like your <"green rocks">.
Click to expand...
Thanks! Me too 😀

Most algae doesn't bother me, but the BBA is particularly unsightly and really seems to do a number on the plants.

Maybe I'll give some ramshorn snails a shot. Assassin snails are readily available if the population gets out of control. I've tried nerites, and while they do great work in my non-CO2 tank, they don't seem to survive very long with CO2 injection. I think it's hard on their shells.
 
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Happi said:

You could try something like this for Micros and Macros: split the doses and aim for 1–2 ppm of N weekly and about 0.1 ppm of Fe weekly. With low plant mass, I’d recommend sticking to 1 ppm of N weekly. Adjust the Ca and Mg levels as needed—I typically maintain Ca at 10 ppm and Mg at 3–4 ppm, but you can double or triple these values if required. Be sure to adjust the 20 ml dose, as it’s specifically designed for 50 gallons of water.​

Click to expand...

Thanks for this! I'll source some urea and should have the rest 🙂
 
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