Moss ID

[zozo]

Took a stroll sunday in the woods it has a water in it.. A piece of old rotten wood caught my eye sticking out of the water covered with a bright green moss with ever lighter colored spikes sticking out, it already looked interesting from a distance. The wood was very old and very soft, easy to break and completely soaked. SO it's definitively a moss that doesn't mind very wet places. Tho it wasn't growing in the water. Closer up without my glasses i thought it might be a fissidens. It is realy a very tiny leaf, so i couldn't tell. Took a little patch 10x10 mm off and took it home.

Close up it seems to be 2 moss spp. growing together.. And the bright one looks more like a liverwort.
Strange are these white colored spore caps, marked the other moss with the red arrow. I guess these spore caps are not from the liverwort.


It's realy tiny, imagine this peace is only 1cm² in size..

@dw1305 Can you maybe lead me in the right direction to narrow the search? 🙂

 

[Guest]

Nice find Marcel, other than a liverwort, I couldn't even begin to guess either; watching with interest

 

[Guest]

Just consulted my Mosses and Liverworts Bible...could it be a Pellia, maybe something like P. endiviifolia?

 

[zozo]

P. endiviifolia

Regarding biotope it kinda fits.. 🙂 But the size of it?? Seeing the pictures,
https://www.verspreidingsatlas.nl/3430


Could still be.. "But the whole patch i found was as tiny all over. Unfortunately didn't cary my camera with to take a shot of it's natural spot. (I might go back this week some day. I now where it is now and a lot of it.) Never seen such small liverwort before. Realy needed a magnification to see it's obvious liverwort characteristics.. Even with wearing the reading glasses i could see any obvious definition other then "It has leaves!?

 

[Edvet]

is it growing in Sphagnum?

oh wait that's the Atlas pic.....

 

[zozo]

We only have 2 recorded Pelia spp. in our region the other is Pellia neesiana But also regarding biotope it lives in bogs. Our common name is Swamp plaque moss. Still the size throws me off.

oh wait that's the Atlas pic.....

It is, placed my little piece on a piece of driftwood hanging to the glass in a tank.. 🙂

 

[zozo]

Huh!? No 4 speices.. Also Pellia epiphylla and Pellia fabbroniana.. All seem to grow significantly bigger and in slight different shape of what i see..
🙂

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

It's realy tiny, imagine this peace is only 1cm² in size..

@dw1305 Can you maybe lead me in the right direction to narrow the search? 🙂

I wondered if it is a Hornwort (Anthocerotophyta), because of the sporophyte "horns". I've never seen one, but I know Anthoceros spp. have frilly thalli, but I think the horns are green and more substantial.

However after a bit more looking I'm fairly sure it is a Liverwort, I'm familiar with Pelia endiviifolia, and it isn't that. It might be <"Riccardia palmata"> (or R. latifrons)?

cheers Darrel

 

[zozo]

Haha Thanks Darrel!! While writing this bellow i saw you reply comming up.. The horn like spikes kinda convinced me it was a hornwort.. That Riccardia would be the hammer because it's an absolute rarety to find..
https://www.verspreidingsatlas.nl/3596

========================================================================================
I think i found a valid candidate?? 🙂 Hornwort??.. Anthoceros spp. (Anthocerotaceae)
Wich one? Yet no idea.. It seems they are rarer to find than liverwort, back in the day the thought it was one genus. But later it got devided in liverwort and hornwort..

Hence the horn like looking spore caps..




I pull out the microscope.. 🙂

 

[dw1305]

Hi Marcel,
Is there a site you can send the picture too? It might be of conservation interest if it is Riccardia palmata or R. latifrons (or a Hornwort).

I don't think the habitat is right for Hornworts (they seem to like open bare ground), but it would be for either Riccardia spp.

cheers Darrel

 

[zozo]

Hi Marcel,
Is there a site you can send the picture too? It might be of conservation interest if it is Riccardia palmata or R. latifrons (or a Hornwort).

I don't think the habitat is right for Hornworts (they seem to like open bare ground), but it would be for either Riccardia spp.

cheers Darrel

Hi Darrel,

I just did, after searching the database i linked to for contact information i ended up here.
Our National Bryological Workgroup Forum.. 🙂
http://www.blwg.nl/mosforum/index.php

My account yet isn't confirmed.. As soon it is i'll post a pic and qeustion there. 🙂

Realy curious what i've found there. I'll post back as soon i get an answer..

 

[Edvet]

Knock knock. Who's there? Environmental police; you're getting a fine for destroying rare plants and habitats😎😎...........................................................

 

[zozo]

Got a Reply.. Likely not a moss at all, well sort off.. He thinks it's a wet Lichen.. Cladonia.. 😵

 

[Guest]

Haha...it bears at least a superficial resemblance to C. macrophyllodes...perhaps

 

[zozo]

Haha...it bears at least a superficial resemblance to C. macrophyllodes...perhaps

Nice find Tim, that could be the one.. 🙂 Lichen also developes such spikes, resambling hornwort.. but as Darrel says than they should be green.
I'll put it under the microscope tomorow.. If it's a lichen i should see a distinct Marrow, Algae and Crust layer in the cross section.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Lichen also develops such spikes, resembling hornwort.

The thalli look like the picture @Guest posted, but the fruiting structures don't look right for a lichen (you can see a typical circular spore cap at the bottom of the Cladonia picture).

If it's a lichen i should see a distinct Marrow, Algae and Crust layer in the cross section

Yes, they should look different under the microscope. This is a liverwort (from <"http://www.fernzenmosses.com/HepsGenKey/genkey62.htm">) :


This is a lichen (from <"http://rbg-web2.rbge.org.uk/lichen/lichen_cross_section.html">)

Figure 1. Showing a foliose lichen thallus (Parmelia saxatilis) in cross-section, with the protective fungal upper cortex (UC), the layer of green-algal photobiont cells (P) positioned above the fungal medulla (M) and lower cortex (LC).

cheers Darrel

 

[zozo]

Easier sad than done, making a cross section of a moss/lichen, without a slicer or something.. Can't get around it to fix that, the lichen is so tiny i wouldn't know how to do that with kitchen tools. But i have another liverwort growing and did put them next to eachother. The difference i saw, the liverwort shows clear (hexagonal) leaf cells, most clearely at the leaf base, even at the microscopes lowest maginification.

The alledged Cladonia doesn't show this cell shape, actualy hard to discribe what shape i see and it takes a lot more magnification to see a distinct shape at all, much more magnification than obove picture.. At that size it just stays kinda cloudy green I guess that is looking through the upper cortext to the green algae under it, mixing up 2 different textures. 🙂

i guess, it laking the multigonal leaf cell makes it mystery solved, not a (very rare priceless, guinnes book of records worthy) liverwort. 🙄