LED lighting

[George Farmer]

I am willing to bet George can access more figures as well from the tests at PFK.

I've tested the PAR on the 1000NDs myself and they're not as bright as the Arcadia, going by results from your good self. The big lighting review carried out by Levi Major for PFK in 2010 did not include the 1000ND units and was marine bias.

I do prefer the spread on the 1000ND and find them more appropriate for shallower tanks, aesthetics aside. In my current set up the PAR is surprisingly uniform across the footprint; around 50 at the substrate. I'm suspending my units 30cm above the aquarium rim and there's plenty of light to grow anything, including a tight carpet of HC and Glosso.

Two Arcadia units over my current tank would be massive overkill, especially as there's no control over intensity, except for lifting the units up or down (is there a suspension kit?) I would also consider one Arcadia unit over a nano tank as massive overkill too. CO2/nutrient/delivery would have to be absolutely spot-on. Of course, when the dimmable versions are released then they'll be no issue with overkill. I also conceed that for very tall aquariums, the Arcadia units are more appropriate from a functional perspective due to their penetration.

As to the looks of the unit, I just have a personal preference for the metal construction of the Arcadia lamp, over the cheap plastic of the TMC. The shape isn't an issue, as fish aren't rectangular or square, nor are plants. 😉 Plus I like round lights anyway.

Each to their own. 🙂

Just to be clear here, I was discussing the Arcadia units as these are what the original post was asking about. If it had been asking about TMCs I would have posted info about my experience with these. I posted because I saw nobody else coming forward who was using Arcadia EcoAqua 30 watt spotlights over a planted tank.

Fair enough. I became involved in this thread because I found your attitude a little dogmatic with regards the aesthetical value of the TMC units.

There's no embed I can see for vids on here, but you folks might enjoy these vids.

Just copy and paste the full link, rather than the shortened link. It then embeds automatically.

Finally, I realise this thread has turned into an Arcadia Eco-Aqua vs TMC 1000ND debate which isn't a bad thing. Hopefully folk reading this thread will be able to make up their own mind as to which they'd prefer to use for their individual set-ups and circumstances. They both have their pros and cons, after all.

 

[George Farmer]

If you can't say anything else for Arcadia, at least they have been open and public with the figures for PAR etc. I still struggle to find similar figures from TMC.

TMC are currently producing a comprehensive LED lighting guide with PAR values and other technical data included. It's certainly needed with their extensive range of units now available. I really like their AquaBeam 1500 Ocean White (9000K) - even crisper and better for greens.

 

[skeletonw00t]

I wish those arcadia were cheaper.

 

[Piece-of-fish]

Putting an aesthetics of whole system very high in my setups I would never never ever put this ugly black thing over any of my tanks no matter how good it would perform Arcadia must look for a new product designer.
To me it looks worse than cheap chinese lights. Just my opinion guys.

 

[Antipofish]

Putting an aesthetics of whole system very high in my setups I would never never ever put this ugly black thing over any of my tanks no matter how good it would perform Arcadia must look for a new product designer.
To me it looks worse than cheap chinese lights. Just my opinion guys.

I tend to agree. First thing I thought was "God it looks horrid", and to be honest its quite plasticy up close and personal.

 

[Radik]

One more thing I am worried about this Arcadia is that it is massive spot light. From the pictures of marine tanks using PAR38 for example it does not look nice. So if you add some lens for deeper tanks it will get even worst. I think for planted community is best to have homogenous light coverage. The lens offered 40 or 60degree are definitely not good for freshwater. Optimal is 90 degree or for shallower tanks 115-125. But then again not from one spot light but homogenous spread.

I have feeling this unit was designed primarily for marine than freshwater where you beam on corals and does not care about base substrate.

 

[Wolfenrook]

I tend to agree. First thing I thought was "God it looks horrid", and to be honest its quite plasticy up close and personal.

I think you are confusing it witht he 1000ND to be honest, which is a plastic brick. You must be, because the Arcadia is made out of metal, it's 1 big metal heatsink. I do however understand that people have different tastes, and to mine the TMC lights really are plasticy and cheap looking.

Wrong again Radik my friend. I have no idea what they look like with the 60 or 40 degree lenses. My tank is 66cms deep total, given my deep substrate I don't need the narrower beam, plus the fact is even if I did you wouldn't see it as my units are closer together than the reccomendation.

As you can see, no spotlight effect at all in there, in a tank that's 70cm wide, 60cm deep and 66cm high. I do agree with you on the PAR38s, I've seen photographs of them in use and found the effect ugly. When I tested these lamps further apart it wasn't quite as nice a 'spread':-

It wouldn't have looked as bad though had I of just used 2 White units, I knew they were going on a narrower tank though, so knew the red and blue light from the freshwater would be neutralised on there. I think this photographs speaks volumes though regarding the 'beam' spread, where I tried just the 1 lamp on it's own over my old Juwel Rio 180:-

You wouldn't be running just 1 lamp on a tank that length anyway, any more than you would with 1000NDs. I certainly wouldn't bother with the 'Freshwater' again though. My wife likes it because it brings out fish colours, but it does nothing for me at all. Perhaps the extra red and blue wavelengths will aid plant growth, but I doubt it.

Ade

 

[Wolfenrook]

Sorry George, I wasn't ignoring you honestly.

Total agreement that it's good that this has become a discussion of the Arcadia vs The TMC. I quite agree that they both have pros and cons, hence I mentioned earlier about horses for courses. 😉

I also do agree that Arcadia need to do more development on their offering. Ok looks wise you can't please everybody all of the time, although I do think that a simple change to the colour of the unit to brushed metal would give the unit much wider appeal compared to the current black gloss paint finish (which actually works well with my new tank, as the cabinet and wooden rim are in black gloss. lol). I like black, but I'm probably in a minority.

Sorry if I came over as dogmatic over the aesthetics. Believe me, I prefer the looks of some of the other makes of LEDs far more, like that AI one that D-D distribute over here, but at over £500 each they're having a laugh. But looks are a personal thing, and personally I wouldn't have a 1000ND out where you can see it as I find them extremely ugly and cheap looking. But this is purely personal taste.

Arcadia also need to hurry up and get their 2nd gen unit out. Dimming is a major point scorer for the TMC units, especially combined with the dawn and dusk cycle from a controller. I love this feature on my 1000ND and do miss it with these units. This is something I did point out to Arcadia, and in a 'review' I did (which doesn't come agross quite so dogmatic. lol). Believe me, I am no Arcadia fan boy, it actually came as a shock to me when the product manager chappy was willing to discuss things with me, as I have been quite scathing with my comments about their products in the past.

Regarding a suspension kit, yes Arcadia do one. No bridge beam yet as they've gone back to the drawing board for the clamp bracket, which means the bridge beam has gone on hold.

Regarding CO2, I've had to seriously ramp mine up. I can't even count the bubbles they're that fast, and I'm still not into lime green. This could partly be the weir though, removing some of the gas. It wont be the sump as I made sure there was no splashing in there, and the outlet I redirected through a home made 'spray bar' mounted vertically to reduce surface agitation. So yes, I am in total agreement that the inability to control intensity beyond raising the lamps is a big minus point for them. Arcadia need to get a move on with the 2nd gen, they may even have been better served to have waited to release until they had this feature.

I welcome your input on this thread to be honest. Your discussion has been based on facts and not guess work etc. Obviously we haven't agreed on aesthetics, but that's personal taste.

Let me put this into a fair perspective. If my new tank had been a little shallower, and had a full hood, I would have used TMC 1000NDs without a doubt. They are excellent units for normal depth or shallow tanks. They are nice and slim and fit into hoods nicely, and the dimming and controller really do a great job. I chose the Arcadia though because I knew this tank was designed to be open topped, and I find the 1000ND ugly. I had also found from experience that the TMC 1000ND was rubbish on anything deeper than about 18 inches. This MAY have changed with the newer units, heck my replacement tile certainly LOOKS brighter. Both units (now the 1000ND seems to have been tweaked) give off a nice colour of light, and both will give you the shimmer effect, shadows and a 3 dimensional look to your tank that you don't get using flourescent lighting.

Right, reposting the vids so folks don't have to leave the site to see them. Mods are welcome to remove the links from the other posts if they wish. 🙂

The first video shows my ORGINAL 1000ND running over what was at the time my 72cm deep aquarium:-



You can probably see on that just how dull this light looked, and why I was put off slightly.

This second video is of my new tank (seriously new, so forgive the fact it looks ropey still):-



It's not a true comparison, as I was using a single 1000ND, and here I am using 2 Arcadias, the reason been the older tank was only 60cm wide which should have been fine for a single 1000ND. However you can still see quite a difference. HOWEVER this is also comparing the OLD 1000ND with the Arcadia, which isn't entirely fair. But you can see why I went off the 1000ND a bit, and perhaps understand my reasoning a little better.

Ade

 

[Morgan Freeman]

I wish those arcadia were cheaper.

I wish all LEDS were cheaper!

In fact, I wish more strip lights were made with LEDS so you don't need to purchase two or three to cover all but the smallest tank.

 

[Wolfenrook]

They'll drop in price one day I'm sure.

Heck, remember how much T5 kit cost when it first hit the hobby? Or the cost of Sky HD when it first came out? Although it does seem that LEDs have a much longer 'bleeding edge' period than most tech usually does....

I'd also like to see somebody like TMC or Arcadia bite the bullet and design a BIGGER fitting for bigger tanks without multiple units. Not a linear type one, but one like the marine ones you see that look like a luminaire, but with LEDs. Then sell it at a sensible price point, rather than the £500 plus these things go for.

Ade

 

[hinch]

I wish all LEDS were cheaper!

In fact, I wish more strip lights were made with LEDS so you don't need to purchase two or three to cover all but the smallest tank.

I'm working on some designs for some strip lights powered by LED's as I wanted a cheap and effective way of lighting my big tank. Once I've got them done and up and working etc ironed out all the bugs I'll be happy to knock up some extras for people at cost + time price.

 

[NA-Fan]

... I do however understand that people have different tastes, and to mine the TMC lights really are plasticy and cheap looking.

Says the man with an artificial ornament in his aquascape?!

Sorry Wolfenrook (can I call you Ade?), I couldn't resist! 😀

This is a fascinating topic. For the record I much prefer the TMC units in terms of their looks. I'm guessing most people would. Plastic or not, the lines are easier on the eye. I saw a couple of TMC tiles over some aquascapes on the Aquajardin stand at Aquatics Live last November and they looked great, especially with the white mounting system and gloss white cabinets. Maybe Arcadia should also consider white units? It's obviously the new black!

I'm considering 2 tiles over my 60cm optiwhite to replace my Arcadia OT2 luminaire. I love the look of suspending them from the ceiling and having an totally clean look. No offence Ade, but George's set-up is in a different league to your own from an interior design viewpoint. Can you really say you'd prefer to see the Arcadia units above his tank from the image George has posted?

@ George - can you elaborate on the differences of the 1000ND and the Aquabeam 1500 (9000K), please? Sorry if this is going off-topic but it's all to do with LED lighting and that's the thread title! 😀

Keep up the great discussion! It's very entertaining and informative.

 

[Antipofish]

I tend to agree. First thing I thought was "God it looks horrid", and to be honest its quite plasticy up close and personal.

I think you are confusing it witht he 1000ND to be honest, which is a plastic brick. You must be, because the Arcadia is made out of metal, it's 1 big metal heatsink. I do however understand that people have different tastes, and to mine the TMC lights really are plasticy and cheap looking.

No confusion at all I have seen them both, and regardless of what it is made of, it still looks plasticky. Of course if you get up close and personal you may be able to tell the difference, but from a normal viewing distance it looks completely tacky to me. As I said, it is personal opinion, what one person likes, another will not. You clearly don't like the TMC's and yet others do. There is no right or wrong here, only personal taste as you have acknowledged 😉

 

[Wolfenrook]

No offense taken, George probably doesn't have to design to compromise with his wife... If I didn't that cat wouldn't get tank room, nor would the mollies, Endlers etc... The cat is my wife's Bast statue, and she insists on it been in there. George has seen photographs of some of my past tanks, and knows I can do better. These days though I have to allow my wife input. On my dart frog vivs I don't, and these tend to look a lot nicer. She has very different tastes visually to mine. I'm hoping the thing will vanish once it's grown in to be honest. 😉

As to what I would prefer to see over George's, yes to my eyes the Arcadia lamps would look nicer hanging over it. I really do find the plastic brick TMCs really really ugly. These are better looking still http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/ai-s ... 070-module but way over priced. The Arcadias look a lot better though once you get rid of the tacky bracket. But then, if you have ever seen the 'bracket' that comes with the 1000ND you wouldn't bring brackets into the discussion. lol To be quite honest, neither Arcadia or TMC have a nice design, they both need to improve. TMC need to lose the cheap plastic, Arcadia need to lose the fat look and maybe the gloss black paint. Just of the 2 FOR ME the Arcadia is the least ugly and cheap looking of the 2.

Ade

PS. Just to be really honest here, I currently HATE the look of the 'scape' in my new tank. I can't stand the look of the anubias, I'm screaming inside wanting some nice red stem plants, and that cat.... The equipment however looks really nice to me. lol

 

[Radik]

Wrong again Radik my friend. I have no idea what they look like with the 60 or 40 degree lenses. My tank is 66cms deep total, given my deep substrate I don't need the narrower beam, plus the fact is even if I did you wouldn't see it as my units are closer together than the reccomendation.

You probably have to re-read what I wrote. I said with 40-60 Degrees lenses this is no go. Without lenses or lens up to max 90Degree will be ok. It is useless for freshwater deep tanks with narrow lens.

Personally I ordered 100x50x50 tank, this will had custom LED again. I will make nice spread of around 30-40LED (66-88Watts) with 90degree lens for penetration. My cost will be in the Arcadia price tag or even less. That's the way to go. Manufacturers either make too expensive or not fit for purpose.

 

[Radik]

Oh and on that tank "cube" it looks good. I am not yet convinced you get good coverage on longer tanks even adding more units. Would be good to test with PAR meter.

 

[Wolfenrook]

I'm not nocking DIY LED setups for one second, if I had the skill and ability I'd probably have considered going that route myself. Me with a soldering iron though isn't a good idea, not with my tremor. 😉 You will always get better results with skilled DIY, as you can customise to your exact needs and requirements.

No PAR meter here, so I will just wait and see how my plants do.

Ade

 

[mzm]

HI George here is a question for you. I have 2 TMC 1000ND and 1 TMC 1000HD Ultra hanging 13inches above a 20inch deep tank. These are on for 5 hours and the 1000HD Ultra is only running at 50%, My dwarf hairgrass, Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, java fern and java moss all look a mess. The green is turning into brown and leaves seem to be covered in some sort of brown algae. I would assume that this is due to high light which according to most posts here cannot be since the tmc's are really high up for such a deep tank. Circulation and co2 is plentifull with a drop checker being the right colour right on the other side of the tank. Comments would be appreciated.

 

[TallDragon]

I still do not get, why a year has passed and Arcadia has not come out with a dimmable version of the eco-Aqua, as some have claimed in this thread that they would. I am just looking for a decent futureproof light over my 35cmx35x40 tank, but the TMC new 1500 with dimming seems overkill. Presently considering the TMC 400 tile or waiting on the new Arcadia LED offering with dimming. (when i say 'futureproof'I mean that i will want to eventually get a bigger tank, but do not want to throw out a good light)