L Aromatica, how long to convert to immerse?

[Reuben]

As the title suggests, just wondering if anyone can tell me how long this plant takes to adapt to immersed growing? Added it two days ago emersed leaves now melting so guess the transition is starting, but seem to remember reading it took a long time to adapt?

Thanks.

 

[ceg4048]

A long time.

Melting always means poor CO2, so your should uproot and just float he plants for a week or so, then replant.

Cheers,

 

[Reuben]

Oh dear! I thought the melting was to be expected (with some plants) when transitioning to being underwater? I just fitted the UP inline atomizer and the Co2 distribution looks miles better straight away. I've had it fitted for a few days and have been tweaking the Co2 to get it to the max level I can. I might try and buy some L Aromatica in the sale/swap section that is already growing underwater. This is the second time I've tried this plant, I seem to have a knack for killing it. Virtually all the leaves have melted and been syphoned off be me while doing large water changes, so it is just a bunch of bare stems now. I was hoping new leaves would start to emerge but should I just give up and pull it out?

 

[Reuben]

Mmm... I'm thinking I should just pull it out as every leaf has gone🙁. If I leave the stems in will they regrow or is it doomed?

 

[ceg4048]

I thought the melting was to be expected (with some plants) when transitioning to being underwater?

It is to be expected when the available CO2 under water is much less than what the plant had access to prior to being inundated with water. In natural systems the wet season comes on gradually. The plants immediately elongate to keep their heads above water in order to breath.

CO2 availability changes the physiology of the plant. So plants which have excellent CO2 are profoundly different in their cellular make up than plants living with low CO2.

Additionally, terrestrial leave, are fundamentally different than submersed leaves. That's why the plant has to grow new leaves in the first place when submerged. See post #5 in the thread Cause of death? | UK Aquatic Plant Society for more details. These differences affect the ability of a terrestrial leaf to access CO2 when flooded.

should I just give up and pull it out?

As I mentioned just because you added better CO2 availability it does not mean that everything will automatically get better. It takes about 2-3 weeks for a positive change in CO2 to register with the plant because the CO2 forces the physiological changes. The plant therefore has to survive for that amount of time until the extra CO2 can be utilized.

Look carefully at the roots. If they have turned to mush then it will be very difficult to recover, but if the roots are clean then there is some chance. Just float them and see.

Cheers,

 

[Reuben]

Look carefully at the roots. If they have turned to mush then it will be very difficult to recover, but if the roots are clean then there is some chance. Just float them and see.

Okay I'll do that and try floating them as you suggest, and see how they go. Would I be right in thinking that if I get some from sale/swap that is already growing submersed I won't have such a challenge getting it established in my tank?

 

[Reuben]

s I mentioned just because you added better CO2 availability it does not mean that everything will automatically get better. It takes about 2-3 weeks for a positive change in CO2 to register with the plant because the CO2 forces the physiological changes. The plant therefore has to survive for that amount of time until the extra CO2 can be utilized.

I'm pretty sure I have my Co2 dialled in nicely now, my drop checker is lime/yellow just before lights on. Oddly this level of Co2 (as indicated via the drop checker) used to cause the fish to show signs of toxicity with my old in-tank diffuser, but they are fine with it using the up in-line? I notice the mist is much, much finer and more 'dense' and is getting to all areas.

Being a more visible, finer mist it is also highlighting areas where the flow is a bit sluggish. I think, as a result, I will remove some filter media to boost my flow. I've loads of media in the filter, for example 500g of purigen on a 125L tank. I have in the first basket filter wool ( thrown out and changed every week) then a coarse sponge, next basket is the purigen along with 200g of zeolite, next basket is full of activated carbon (been in there for a while should I change it or will it be bio now?), then the top basket is full of seachem matrix (a biological media).

What would you lose first? I'm thinking get rid of the zeolite and half the purigen, just because I imagine they will slow the flow the most being fairly densely packed in. But maybe they're the best bit in the filter, or not?

Thanks for your time.

 

[stu_]

Try it without the filter wool.

 

[Reuben]

have in the first basket filter wool ( thrown out and changed every week) then a coarse sponge,

Try it without the filter wool.

Sorry I should of been clearer here. In the first basket I have a coarse sponge and a 12mm thick bit of wool which I use like a pre filter and replace each week. So it's not the thick wodge of wool you might have envisaged.

It is like this, water in;

1. 12mm wool and coarse sponge
2. Purigen 500g and zeolite 200g
3. activated carbon
4. bio media (seachem matrix)

water out and return to tank.

Thanks

 

[ceg4048]

Would I be right in thinking that if I get some from sale/swap that is already growing submersed I won't have such a challenge getting it established in my tank?

It's a lot easier when the plant has already been submersed, however, the other part of the equation still stands. If your tank has lees efficient CO2 and distribution than the tank that the plants came out of then they will show signs of deficiency, even if the plants currently in your tank are fine with the CO2. Think of CO2 as if it were a narcotic; going from a lower state to a higher state is an easier transition than for the junkie to go from a higher state to a lower state.

You can eliminate the Purigen, zeolite and the carbon completely. Purigen and carbon are both great, but they accomplished the same things as doing frequent massive water changes. You can get even more flow by also removing half of the bio-media. Just put some more coarse sponge in place if you want.

In a CO2 injected tank flow is King, CO2 is Queen, nutrients is Princess and water change is Crown Prince.

Cheers,

 

[Reuben]

You can eliminate the Purigen, zeolite and the carbon completely.

Done. Removed from the filter.

You can get even more flow by also removing half of the bio-media

Did this too, and distributed the remainder across the three baskets. It now looks like this;

Water in
1. 12mm wool/coarse foam
2, 3 ,4. Small amount of bio media in each
Water out

It did pain me a bit to be taking all that media I bought out, but I kept thinking that it does make sense!! With the large water changes I do I could probably not have any media in and do okay I suppose. I kept the purigen and am trying out the recharging thing, in case I want to reuse it in the future. Flow does look a bit improved, I'm sure the turnover through the filter must be faster now....

I think I must have this thing set up right now! I'm impressed with the UP inline device, it looks a big improvement on my in tank method, just hoping the plants will agree.

I very much doubt the L. Aromatica is going to pull through and might look at getting some that's already growing in water.