Is my tap water too soft for Amano shrimp?

[Hanuman]

When reading about this from various sources, there appears to be a great deal of confusion about what is possible and what is closer to ideal. Yes, with some luck you can probably keep shrimps at 2 or lower dGH... just as you can possibly keep Rams or Cardinals at 25 or higher dGH as some have shown (I personally find that horrific)... but one have to ask the question if its a good care choice, especially when doling out advice.

Problem is I think a lot of this "ideal" conditions are extrapolations based on people's experience and not really based on measurements of the actual natural conditions where shrimp evolve, specifically for amanos. What we read all over the internet is virtually based on opinions and experience and parameters range pretty widely. I have yet to find any websites that clearly mentions the source of these parameters and if there are based on the paramaters of the actual natural habitats.

In my opinion the closest to the actual ideal conditions we will get will be from Japanese tanks keeping amanos as their tap water probably matches more or less the water in which these shrimp evolve in their natural habitat.

 

[Witcher]

In my opinion the closest to the actual ideal conditions we will get will be from Japanese tanks keeping amanos as their tap water probably matches more or less the water in which these shrimp evolve in their natural habitat.

Or going even further: from Yamato Basin, Sea of Japan, Tsushima and other places where those shrimps are freely living (ok, the fry, adults are another subject) while not being interested in what we are talking about.

 

[Hanuman]

Or going even further: from Yamato Basin, Sea of Japan, Tsushima and other places where those shrimps are freely living (ok, the fry, adults are another subject) while not being interested in what we are talking about.

Is there any paper out there detailing water parameters of that area specially where adults shrimps live?

 

[MichaelJ]

Problem is I think a lot of this "ideal" conditions are extrapolations based on people's experience and not really based on measurements of the actual natural conditions where shrimp evolve, specifically for amanos. What we read all over the internet is virtually based on opinions and experience and parameters range pretty widely. I have yet to find any websites that clearly mentions the source of these parameters and if there are based on the paramaters of the actual natural habitats.

I hear what you’re saying and unfortunately that is mostly the case. I did however do some research on the tributaries where Neocaridina davidi and Caridina cantonensis originates (not Amanos though so you might be right). It’s sort of sad that every time people around here with a bit of keel claims something without a pile of deeply researched peer reviewed papers to back it up, it’s immediately thrown under the bus as “online nonsense”… No wonder that the likes of @Happi and other luminaries rarely post here. Not aiming this at you in particular @Hanuman, but at some point it’s just going to make one wonder if participating is even worth it. I guess I just have to suck it up or stop posting on anything shrimp or water related.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Hanuman]

It’s sort of sad that every time people around here with a bit of keel claims something without a pile of deeply researched peer reviewed papers to back it up, it’s immediately thrown under the bus as “online nonsense"

None, but absolutely none of the websites I have read about amanos state their source. A website will simply claim parameters as if that was the absolute truth. Then you go to another website where parameters are basically off from what you read before. It's not about having peer reviewed papers, it's simply about the source of the information. Plain and simple. We are in an era where people seem to think that opinion = facts. Yet, I don't dismiss people's experience but when I read contradicting information right and left it does leave me wondering what's what. You know far too well that the Internet is filled with garbage, myth, bad data, unsubstantiated claims etc specially when it comes to this hobby. Nothing new here.

No wonder that the likes of @Happi and other luminaries rarely post here. Not aiming this at you in particular @Hanuman, but at some point it’s just going to make one wonder if participating is even worth it.

🧐 I think you are assuming here on why people post or not. Actually it does look like it is aimed at me considering you are quoting me and I am the one questioning these parameters ranges but regardless, just to make this clear, at no point did I throw anything under the bus. I have also researched quite extensively about amanos (since this is the shrimp being discussed here and since I am trying to breed them), but what I read on www goes from 0% to 100%. In other words there doesn't seem to be a consensus on dHG nor dKH and several people who have posted in this thread have clearly shown that their parameters are far below what you can read in some websites, yet they are still able to keep amanos perfectly fine. So, it's sensible for me to question what is the source of all these internet information. If people making these websites know for a fact that those parameters are the parameters of the natural habitats then why not simply mention it? And to make it extra clear, I was not referring to your knowledge, I was referring to websites outside this forum.

 

[MichaelJ]

🧐 I think you are assuming here on why people post or not.

Specifically on the people I have in mind that I know, I don't, but I am not going to be imprudent. Mentioning a specific member was already a mistake (Sorry H) and I PM'ed him my apologies.

Actually it does look like it is aimed at me considering you are quoting me and I am the one questioning these parameters ranges but regardless

Not aimed at you at all... Sorry if you took it like that 😇

It's been a while but while digging out water measurements from the Han river (Guangdong) or Pearl river (Guangzhou) tributaries in China I don't remember seeing any dGH levels below 4-5. Again. speaking about Neocaridina davidi and Caridina cantonensis which are the shrimp I keep. I never kept Amanos, as I believe I've mentioned.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Wookii]

I suspect the advice on dGH levels comes from breeders of other Caridina variants. Obviously breeders have done extensive testing over the years to come up with parameters that produce the highest number of viable offspring, the most successful adult moults and maturation of the shrimp. Most breeders use RO water, and so can fully control the water parameters to meet whatever target they want. The shrimp being bred are typically ornamental crossbred variants, and the objective is for them to thrive, not just survive, so parameters from the natural habitats of their genetic lineage may not be that relevant(?).

With Amano shrimp I assume these parameters have simply been assumed given they are also a Caridina species, but being a wild shrimp, that doesn't necessarily follow as it doesn't with Tangerine Tigers which are also natural variants.

That being said, I'm really surprised to read of them surviving in such low calcium water column levels, and can only assume they are somehow getting enough calcium supplementation from the fish food they are scavenging?

 

[MrClockOff]

To be honest with you the water parameters I have posted are for my tap water only. My hardscape is built of dragon stone, bog wood and my substrate is Tropica aqua soil, capped with Hugo Kamishi small and medium gravel, plus pool filter sand as decorative layer at front.
It might be well that fish tank water has already different parameters due to hardscape materials and injected CO2. Though I strongly believe everything I’ve used is inert.

 

[MichaelJ]

Here are some numbers for the Han River (China):

http://sourcedb.wbg.cas.cn/yw/rckyw/200907/W020120112369132079149.pdf

Page 323: Ca range 13-84 ppm Mean: 38, Mg 1.9-25 ppm. Mean: 7.9 EC range 111-604 uS/cm. Mean 285.6

It covers a pretty vast area, but the above numbers should give a fair range. I will have to dig a little deeper to find specific numbers from locales where shrimps are found. But looking into this on a previous occasion made me conclude the 4-7 dGH range was more or less consistent with the actual natural habitats.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[MrClockOff]

Here are some numbers for the Han River (China):

http://sourcedb.wbg.cas.cn/yw/rckyw/200907/W020120112369132079149.pdf

Page 323: Ca range 13-84 ppm Mean: 38, Mg 1.9-25 ppm. Mean: 7.9 EC range 111-604 uS/cm. Mean 285.6

It covers a pretty vast area, but the above numbers should give a fair range. I will have to dig a little deeper to find specific numbers from locales where shrimps are found. But looking into this on a previous occasion made me conclude the 4-7 dGH range was more or less consistent with the actual natural habitats.

Cheers,
Michael

Thanks for sharing this 👍

 

[MrClockOff]

By the way I did have a successful molt 🎉

 

[MrClockOff]

More successful molts and couple of females are now berried, making males behaving like the crazy darts! So much action 😂
As suggested above I do feed them with supplementary minerals.