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Is a MASSIVE tank suitable for anything more than low tech?

Paul Sabucchi

Paul Sabucchi

Member
Joined
7 May 2017
Messages
35
Location
Adriatic Coast Italy
Hi, for years I have been running some low tech planted tanks with reasonable results for somebody who is concerned mostly with the fish rather than the plants. I have 3x30 liter, 2x60 liter (one in the photo) and one 250 liter planted tanks (then I have 2x400 liter mbuna and one 400 liter discus and 200 liter goldfish). I like to do my homework well in advance, the long term plan will be to return to the UK in a few years and I would like to have less tanks but BIGGER, I'm talking 12'x2'x2' or more, ideally one mbuna (obviously just rocks) and one planted. Because of the sheer size the tank will be light limited, is it at all worth considering some CO2 injection (even with wavemakers all over probably 30 ppm in most spots would be unachievable) and EI dosing with dry salts (starting at standard levels then slowly tapering down to minimum effective doses?). Or should I just stick to low tech?
Kind regards to all
 

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Anything is possible with money, though if this is a limiting factor then it'd probably make more sense to go lower/medium tech imo
 
Yeh its big, but I don’t see it being particularly more difficult than say a 5ft or 6ft.

Your light is pointing down, so you only need enough bulbs to cover the surface area, 2x a 4x T5 kit.

In terms of flow, powerheads will certainly help. Also you can be creative, my filter return comes through the base of the tank, so I’m blasting all the CO2 and flow directly over the foreground plants. No reason you couldn’t do something like that. Also maybe double sump it. So overflows in each back corner, returns in the middle of the tank facing the towards the front. Creates a ‘forward and out’ motion.
 
I tried it on my 400 gallon for a while.
1) needs a easy reliable CO2 source of large cannisters (50 liters)
2) needs a good way of dissolving a large amount of CO2 ( i think large diy reactors are best)
3) needs a solid circulation system
4) maintaining and pruning isn''t easy in a large tank

It can be done, See Lisbons Amano''s project

Alternatively i used low dose 24/7 CO2 for a long time succesfully until my CO2 source left town.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/101410164@N02/albums/72157635419531954
 
How much time and money have you got? Maybe you need to have someone expert who will come in and give advise semi regularly. Suggest George Farmer or Oliver Knott.

This is not a trivial project.
 
A CO2 project that size is always going to be expensive, but it doesn't have to be complicated. Keep it stupidly simple and lower or "hybrid" energy and it'll be easier to maintain as well as relatively lower cost (both setup and running).

Choose low light and low CO2 plants (Crypts, Anubias, Ferns, Echinodorus, etc) and bubble in just enough CO2 to turn a drop checker green, instead of lime green.
You will not need so much light, flow, or fertz either; 2 large filters pushing out water through 2 sets of lily pipes arranged to provide a gyre water circulation will suffice. Your plants will still benefit greatly from the extra CO2.

As for substrate, if you haven't already, think about using a thin layer of potting compost covered with sand or gravel. It has many benefits and is dirt cheap. If you're uncomfortable with that, there is also this https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/tropica-plant-growth-substrate-25l-1034-p.asp which works the same way.

Check out this link https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/na-65cm-slow-burner.37285/ the scale isn't what you had in mind but the principle is the same. Other than that, what Ed and the rest said above.
 
Also if you go low light and depending on the plant sp. you like to grow.. You just might suffice with much less than 30ppm Co²..
The 30ppm rule is a fictive optimum rule in regards to lifestock safety.. Since you already know from low tech experience, not an absolute must to grow plants.

There are references to find of planted tanks having equal good results with 15ppm CO² instead.. On such massive volumes saving 50% is quite a bit.. :)
 
Not that I know of Ed...but like Marcel mentions I know great results can be had with much lower concs of CO2 than 30ppm, and relatively low flow, but conversely with fairly high light; it can be a bit of an algae tightrope though, so best to stick with lowish light intensity. Which is really what I was getting at above.
 
Yeah, i understand, did that myself. But there were behind the scenes videos of Lisbon, can't remember the CO2 part.Most likely it was a lower light, low dose CO2 setup, just wondering. (they would be pruning it far more if high light)
 
Edvet said:
Did anybody actually show the CO2 dissolving in the Amano setup??
Click to expand...

There are interviews/podcasts with Jurijs mit S to find on the net in German and English i believe about it. He was invited by Amano to help with the build.
In the interviews the behind the scenes stuff is discussed, also bits about the CO² part... As discussed already a few times here, it uses a venturi diffuser.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22209441

https://www.elosaquarium.co.uk/CO2-Venturi-Reactor-Large

A guess concerning the Amano setup in lisbon.. It might be something like this.
l_20170928_115017_7440_tcm17-433804_w1024_n.jpg

http://www.linde-gas.com/en/industr...ment/carbon_dioxide_neutralisation/index.html
 
As Marcel mentions, I also watched an early Lisbon behind the scenes video that examined filters & CO2

Sorry no idea which video (or if it’s still online - there were some ADA videos that only played for a short time)
 
Felipe Oliveira has been involved in several large planted tank aquascapes

ADG as well, but they are quite reticent in regards details (or even general information)
 
Hi paul
My tank is 160x70x60 cm LxWxH about 650l
3000l pump with spray bar no filter

Co2 a few bubbles/second into the inlet of pump gives me about 0.5 ph drop at best.

Lighting 4x54w t5 8 hrs a day
The tubes are 4cm from the water surface.
I’m away now for 8 weeks so I turned 2 tubes off to slow the plants down.

I use dry salts for fertilser just way less than ei
Just don’t let the frets drop to 0 this is easy in a large volume of water.
I change 100l every week

Ei ferts, high co2, large filters, bright lights,big water changes are all great but u don’t need it to grow great plants.
I throw buckets of cuttings out every month.

Co2 will help your plants dramatically even in low lit aquariums.
 
Lots to think about, good job I've got plenty of time. Here just enquiring about if once I get my big tank stepping up the tech is a feasable option. I will not require an extreme type of setup, particularly because I can't forsee having fast growing carpeting plants (may be considering Staurogyne though). My aim would be to ensure I achieve a satisfactory growth mainly of the easy plant species I have been keeping for years: Vallisneria, Ceratopteris, Crypts, Ludwigia, Rotala, Alternanthera, Microsorum (Windelov), Anubia and Buce. Should I just stick to low tech? Only downside over these years is that the stem plants tend to grow straggly so I would like to improve on that and possibly speed up the growth otherwise it would take forever to fill such a big tank. I mainly use pond soil covered with sand, when I have tried different substrates (Prodibio shrimp powder, Glass Garten, kitty litter) I have had problems with Cyanobacteria (lighting and all else being the same). While over here in Italy I have limited myself to relatively weak LED lighting because intense T5/T8 cause too much heat, even with plenty of cooling fans it would be a struggle to keep the water under 28C; that has in turn dictated the low tech approach
 
BTW I am thinking of self building the big tanks along the guidelines of how my friend in Florida has tried and tested a number of times. Will probably still have a score of canister filters from the current tanks, although with such big tanks a sump would make more sense
 
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