"In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 1st May - BBA

[darren636]

Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The

reminds me of a coral reef- just in green

 

[JohnC]

Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The

reminds me of a coral reef- just in green

cheers, kinda fits with the Cthulhu theme with him arising from the depths. 🙂

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

 

[greenink]

"In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting There

Love this tank. Having similar AM1000 issues myself - plus the swishing noise. Like your theory about delay / instability as I'm also getting BBA issues that it takes a lot of easy carbo to sort. Might switch to an UP atomiser direct into the filter or even into the AM1000 (though take your point about flow).

Have never used an in tank diffuser so might try this eventually.

How are you stopping the soil mixing with the sand. Is this just not a problem? And what kind of substrate cleaning are you doing? Any vacuuming?

 

[JohnC]

Re:

Love this tank. Having similar AM1000 issues myself - plus the swishing noise. Like your theory about delay / instability as I'm also getting BBA issues that it takes a lot of easy carbo to sort. Might switch to an UP atomiser direct into the filter or even into the AM1000 (though take your point about flow).

Have never used an in tank diffuser so might try this eventually.

How are you stopping the soil mixing with the sand. Is this just not a problem? And what kind of substrate cleaning are you doing? Any vacuuming?

Why thank you.

I'm like you in regard to getting kit out of the tank, hence why i got the reactor, but tbh i think the diffuser is just a hell of a lot easier in the long run. If my extra koralia doesnt start helping along with some tweaking of the timer I'm going to switch it out.

Re: soil mixing with sand, I have a big wall of stones around the soil. 😀 I am vacuuming a touch but mostly to get rid of green algae buildups on the sand. I'm learnings Amano's lesson on decorative sand first hand. I now know better for future set ups.

Best Regards,
John

 

[Ady34]

Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The

Hi there,
this is a very nice looking tank, the rock work reminds me of one of George Farmers crypt tanks and is a great way of positively seperating the sand and soil.

I'm learnings Amano's lesson on decorative sand first hand. I now know better for future set ups.

i had a sand bed, seemed like a good idea at the time too, now its sand with a layer of soil, i gave up in the end and let the shrimps move it wherever they wanted!
Cheerio,
Ady.

 

[JohnC]

Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The

Hi there,
this is a very nice looking tank, the rock work reminds me of one of George Farmers crypt tanks and is a great way of positively seperating the sand and soil.

I'm learnings Amano's lesson on decorative sand first hand. I now know better for future set ups.

i had a sand bed, seemed like a good idea at the time too, now its sand with a layer of soil, i gave up in the end and let the shrimps move it wherever they wanted!
Cheerio,
Ady.

Thanks!

The sand will eventually have a bit of overspill Glosso from the main bulk of the planting. It's already started to be honest and its looking good.

The shrimp are kicking about a little soil but nothing I can't hoover out on each clean.

Best Regards,
John

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The

Can i ask where you managed to buy so much moss?
thanks

 

[JohnC]

Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The

Can i ask where you managed to buy so much moss?
thanks

My corner tank is still going and is a moss manufacturing machine. 8)

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The

looking to sell any at all 😉

tank is looking great.

 

[JohnC]

Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The

looking to sell any at all 😉

tank is looking great.

I'll PM you. 8)

And thanks!

Still getting too much BBA on the hardscape for my liking although the plant growth is amazing, even though I've added a pump to aid circulation.

I think i'm going to whip the reactor out this week and use a standard diffuser.

 

[JohnC]

Hi,

Quick update.

Still having massive BBA issues. These photos are after I spent 2 hours scrubbing rocks and wood yesterday.

Each time I do this i dislodge the wood more and the moss does not have time to get fully established in the way I want.

Very annoying. I still have the reactor on with the extra pump for some more circulation but have adjusted the timing to have the CO2 stop 2 hours before lights out and come on 30 min before lights on. The checker is stable light green the entire time.

I've given the filters a clean which may help, additionally the plant mass has increased somewhat since last posting.

Although I've also done some massive trims and prunes as part of my efforts to learn more about glosso growing. I really too it back a long way last time and was so impressed when it came back better then ever a week later.

The Hydrocotyle also seems to love being hacked right down.

Some photos for now as I've got to go to bed.









I'll come back to some more specific points tomorrow.

Best Regards,
John

 

[Ady34]

Hi John,
you must have done a good job of scrubbing the BBA as not much evidence it was ever there! Maybe not what your looking for (either for the look of the scape or a 'remedy not reason' for the bba), but siamensis 'flying fox' are supposed to eat bba, and now its been scrubbed away they could keep it in check. I know its an obvious question but have you placed the dc in various positions around the tank to ensure even distribution of c02?
The plants are really filling in nicely now and if that glosso carpets fully this will look completely balanced and truly stunning. Great plant choices and positioning .
Cheerio,
Ady.

 

[awtong]

At the front you have two areas of red/brown plants poking out behind the wood slightly left centre and behind the stone slightly right centre. Are these Crypts of some sort? maybe undulata?. I love the colour and texture of them and would love to know what they are.

The tank is looking great even if you have a few issues. As Ady states Siamese algae eaters are great for dealing with BBA. I have two in my 450l and never see any BBA.

Good luck with the algae,

Andy

 

[Westyggx]

Looking good John, nice growth and again i cant see any BBA so good job on keeping on top of it!

 

[JohnC]

Hi John,
you must have done a good job of scrubbing the BBA as not much evidence it was ever there! Maybe not what your looking for (either for the look of the scape or a 'remedy not reason' for the bba), but siamensis 'flying fox' are supposed to eat bba, and now its been scrubbed away they could keep it in check. I know its an obvious question but have you placed the dc in various positions around the tank to ensure even distribution of c02?
The plants are really filling in nicely now and if that glosso carpets fully this will look completely balanced and truly stunning. Great plant choices and positioning .
Cheerio,
Ady.

It's almost a complete tank breakdown each time I do it and this is the third time i've had too now. 🙁

The moss is really taking a beating too as there is BBA in a lot of the fissendens. I do have a bucket load more I could replace it with but i'm trying to get the thread out of the tank as it is one of the BBA magnets.

I'm hoping that each time I do the full clean the underlaying issue will be have sorted and it won't come back, or at least come back in lesser force. This last clean I potentially could have been removing BBA that started to colonise before the changes I made to the CO2 timing through the reactor. Hopefully this will be the last of these big scrubs.

Siamese algae eaters - i'd rather not, i know of the fish but they are too large for the tank and i've heard bad things about them in the long run.

I'll put another drop checker in but I'm sceptical that CO2 distribution is the issue outright as I have so much flow with the two ex 1200's. But I might be getting a slight cancellation of flow in the central front area.....possibly.

Thanks for the compliments of plants. I'm really enjoying the glosso carpet after the initial hassles. The hydrocotyle is mental growth rates as I mentioned before but as long as you have no fear in hacking it back it really comes good.

At the front you have two areas of red/brown plants poking out behind the wood slightly left centre and behind the stone slightly right centre. Are these Crypts of some sort? maybe undulata?. I love the colour and texture of them and would love to know what they are.

The tank is looking great even if you have a few issues. As Ady states Siamese algae eaters are great for dealing with BBA. I have two in my 450l and never see any BBA.

Good luck with the algae,

Andy

Yes on the crypts although I don't have names for them. The larger of the two is possibly not Undulata as it is a little bit small with leaves no longer then 10cm. Its a deep red hammered appearance and sits low on the substrate when it's grown out. I nicked it from Seb (another Edinburgh UKAPS member) whom I help out with his tank, as it is a lovely fore ground crypt.

The other type (the smaller) is one I picked up from Outsideinside aquatics ages ago probably from a specialist grower in spain. I've been nursing it around through a couple of set up's as it is so small and dark brown/red. Again no name, even back checking through the tickets from all the plants I bought at the time.

There are some more of the same types dotted around, mostly hidden by hydrocotyle, that will become clearer once they mature and I do some creative pruning.

Looking good John, nice growth and again i cant see any BBA so good job on keeping on top of it!

Thanks!, but i have to say it is trying my patients.

-------

Overall I will give the scape another month with the current CO2 set up and see how it goes. I've learned before that changing things too often is as likely to set off algae as doing nothing at all.

I've been pondering a few things of late while reading here in regards to algae and dosing schedules.

Mark has been advocating a number of times the ADA'ish approach of reducing dosing and letting the soil do the work. Others the same, pushing the age old ideas that nitrates in the water cause more algae. Parts of which I'd got past through my years learning and using EI.

I look at the hassles i'm having with this scape in contrast to my corner (which is still running btw 8) ) both with EI, the corner with medium to low light, this scape with very high light, and it shows me how much more I still have to learn.

Always learning.

The high light growth rates are AMAZING. I hammered the glosso/hydro back to a cm above the substrate, down to bare stalks, so much that I thought i may have over done it. But boom a week later i've got a carpet again, better then ever.

The stems under high light are a revelation. Again hacking back to an inch from the substrate and within a week i've got new growth every where.

I'm used to using EI to superboost my plant growth but EI + aquasoil + high light is mental, almost too much (although this tank is designed that way).

My algae issues are just BBA and some GDA on the glass. The vast majority of BBA is occurring on the hardscape.

Because I made this tank hardscape heavy, and technically underplanted compared to most tanks (I was trying to be too arty too be honest) as soon as there is a fluctuation, or something somewhere goes slightly out of kilter, the BBA gets a foothold where it can. In my case since my EI knowledge (and substrate) has allowed my plants to grow well, the algae goes for the rocks. Of which i have many.

Now if i'd made a Iwagumi with three large rocks and the same plants the weekly water change and clean would be done in 30 minutes and i'd be reporting a lovely hassle free existance (i'd hope) of lush plant growth.

Because I went complicated hardscape with my wierder hardware set up, i created my own problems.

I could for example remove the retaining line of stones and replace the sand with more soil to have the glosso fully fill the tank, thus removing 90% of the hardscape the BBA is growing on.

Coming back to the EI vs ada'ish comment. I'm somewhat coming around to the thinking that with EI, it's designed to make plants grow well. Tom often references that soil substrates and EI have a lot in common in regards to providing the plant every thing it needs to grow well. Just in different ways.

With EI if you have a lush, full growth, almost everything is planted tank, which i've done before, like my corner is now. The turbo charged plant growth keeps the BBA from getting a foot hold on anything and any areas where it does go can be quickly removed. That is to say if you have a small outbreak for what ever reason.

With the ada'ish tank you get the faster growth rates from the nutrients being in the soil and get your lush growth, but the leaner water column dosing would mean when/if an algae out break occurs the algae have less to feed on and the growth would be slower and less extensive.

Now I am a lover of EI and will keep using it but what I'm getting at is this.

In a hard scape heavy, higher light intensity tank, would reducing the water column dosing by using soil substrates mainly be a better methodology then full EI, with the presumption that somewhere at some point an algae out break will happen and your clean up is going to be an on going nightmare due to your overly complex set up? 8)

Best Regards,
John

 

[awtong]

[quote="JohnC

Yes on the crypts although I don't have names for them. The larger of the two is possibly not Undulata as it is a little bit small with leaves no longer then 10cm. Its a deep red hammered appearance and sits low on the substrate when it's grown out. I nicked it from Seb (another Edinburgh UKAPS member) whom I help out with his tank, as it is a lovely fore ground crypt.

The other type (the smaller) is one I picked up from Outsideinside aquatics ages ago probably from a specialist grower in spain. I've been nursing it around through a couple of set up's as it is so small and dark brown/red. Again no name, even back checking through the tickets from all the plants I bought at the time.

There are some more of the same types dotted around, mostly hidden by hydrocotyle, that will become clearer once they mature and I do some creative pruning.

Because I made this tank hardscape heavy, and technically underplanted compared to most tanks (I was trying to be too arty too be honest) as soon as there is a fluctuation, or something somewhere goes slightly out of kilter, the BBA gets a foothold where it can. In my case since my EI knowledge (and substrate) has allowed my plants to grow well, the algae goes for the rocks. Of which i have many.

Now if i'd made a Iwagumi with three large rocks and the same plants the weekly water change and clean would be done in 30 minutes and i'd be reporting a lovely hassle free existance (i'd hope) of lush plant growth.

Best Regards,
John[/quote]

Shame you don't know the names they just seemed to have lovely leaf shape and a really deep red colouration. As I am very low tech Crypts are my best friend so I am always looking out for a nice contrast within the different species. I will see what I can find on some websites and try and find something similar.

You could have designed an Iwagumi style layout but this design kills it every time in my opinion. I am not an Iwagumi man!

Hope you get this sorted and keep this lovely tank going.

Andy

 

[JohnC]

Shame you don't know the names they just seemed to have lovely leaf shape and a really deep red colouration. As I am very low tech Crypts are my best friend so I am always looking out for a nice contrast within the different species. I will see what I can find on some websites and try and find something similar.

You could have designed an Iwagumi style layout but this design kills it every time in my opinion. I am not an Iwagumi man!

Hope you get this sorted and keep this lovely tank going.

Andy

I'm just getting back into crypts. My substrate in the corner is basically inert so crypts, and anything heavy root feeding, did not grow well. It's awesome seeing them grow properly in aqua soil or flora base. The 70L lower light tank i've got going now has faster crypt growth then my full EI corner.

I wish I had the name of these two, they are awesome, i'm on a mission to get these two specific types grown out fully.

Re: Iwagumi. I'm trying to think about what I could actually get away with in this tank due to the high-lite ballast being so ridiculously high light and no option of raising the light. I think a fast growth Iwagumi might, perversely be easier to maintain in the long run.

I also have a massive pile of huge rocks in the hallway waiting to be used on something. 8)

But if i did it it would be exactly the same plants again, minus the moss.

Best Regards,
John

 

[Westyggx]

John, what have you noticed with glosso pruning mate? Weekly cut = more dense growth? Cheers

 

[JohnC]

John, what have you noticed with glosso pruning mate? Weekly cut = more dense growth? Cheers

Well taking advice from readings here i've also knocked my lighting span up an hour to help it carpet.

Pruning wise, its more i've learned that it recovers so quickly and denser so can take stupidly hard trimming. I left it a little long last time and hacked it down to stems, in places I could barely see a surviving leaf. But it came back with force. Thicker then ever. I'm going to continue with fortnightly trims down to one leaf height now to see how that looks. Rather then going harder but longer between trims.

 

[hotweldfire]

Now I am a lover of EI and will keep using it but what I'm getting at is this.

In a hard scape heavy, higher light intensity tank, would reducing the water column dosing by using soil substrates mainly be a better methodology then full EI, with the presumption that somewhere at some point an algae out break will happen and your clean up is going to be an on going nightmare due to your overly complex set up? 8)

Best Regards,
John

This is interesting and something I have been thinking about myself. Have considered pulling out my reflectors and going back to ADA (already have aquasoil in the tank) instead of EI I've been using for the last year. Instead I have cranked up the EI ferts by about 50%.

The reason is that I noticed my frogbit was struggling. This suggests to me inadequate nutrients. I think it was Darrel who suggested this as a nutrient monitor and it seems to me a very sensible testing mechanism.

In my new nano I had some struggling hairgrass and a wee bit of hair algae a few weeks back but the frogbit was thriving. This is because I had reduced the co2 to prepare for introduction of livestock but of course this didn't affect the frogbit.

Perhaps drop some floating plants in there and see how they get on? If they do fine then this may suggest it is a co2 issue after all. Perhaps related to your diffusion method? Did you say it was a reactor?