How would you interpret this product information?

[Andrew Butler]

I would like your opinions on how you would interpret this freely available product information please.

It is with regard to Fluval G series filters and the aquastop valve; reading the information below which is from the instructions and also from the fluval website would you think this feature was intended to be used to regulate the water flow on a permanent basis?

http://www.fluval-g.com/pdf/Fluval-G-Series-Manual-EN.pdf
Page 6
'AQUASTOP System The AQUASTOP system makes maintenance easy, allowing you to stop the water flow by simply bringing the AQUASTOP valve lever into an upright position. By completely lifting the release lever, the AQUASTOP assembly can be removed from the filter without separating the hosing. The AQUASTOP valve lever can also be used to regulate the water flow with no harm to the motor or its components.'
Page 7
'Advanced Motor Performance The Fluval G is powered by a three component advanced technology drive system providing power, long term reliability with virtually zero noise and high performance. The powerful yet compact synchronized dual drive coil is controlled by one of two Fluval G microprocessors which continuously monitor and adjust start speed, impeller direction, power absorption and performance. The ferrite impeller spins on an aluminum oxide ceramic impeller shaft and rides a high temperature performance polymer thrust bearing offering a unique combination of wear resistant properties. With unheard of quality components, advanced control system and low energy consumption the Fluval G drive pumps equate to unparallel durability and performance.'

http://www.fluval-g.com/features_e.php
AQUASTOP
With its proprietary technology the AquaStop system makes maintenance easy, allowing you to stop the water flow by simply bringing the AquaStop valve lever into an upright position. By lifting the AquaStop release lever, the complete assembly can be conveniently removed without separating the hosing. The AquaStop valve lever can also be used to regulate the water flow with no harm to the motor or its components.

 

[Tim Harrison]

The AQUASTOP valve lever can also be used to regulate the water flow with no harm to the motor or its components.'

That would indicate it can be used to control flow long term. Why do you ask?

 

[Andrew Butler]

I was speaking to Fluval about another issue with my filter and they said about restricted flow; when I explained I had the lever regulating the flow as I was advised I could do by a rep and the product literature I was told this was wrong and it was only intended to be used for short durations. I asked for this in writing and this is what I got..........

As per our conversation regarding the flow lever, all our externals filters can have the flow reduced for maintenance and feeding times but should not be permanently restricted, this is why we do not recommend the in-lining of any product as this will restrict flow. Permanent restriction may compromise the efficiency and durability of the filter as would a car hand brake if you were to drive with it half on.

I have tried arguing my case with Fluval as it makes no mention anywhere of it intended to only be used for short durations, I have gone above the technical advisor and he is not the slightest bit interested and told me it's something I need to take up with the retailer. I am just interested to see if it is just me that interprets the information this way.

 

[ian_m]

Pumps can be damages by not running at their rated throughput, but does depend on the manufacturer.

JBL says, their E1501 isolating valves can be used to reduce the flow on the out, but must not reduce by more than 1/2 or else damage may occur to the pump/impellor.

On the technical side, as an engineer, if you overload, by restricting the flow, a permanent magnet motor (which most of fish pumps are) as the impellor is no longer keeping phase with the mains due to overload it starts to demagnetise the impellor. Thus will fail in much shorter time than expected lifetime.

 

[Andrew Butler]

JBL says, their E1501 isolating valves can be used to reduce the flow on the out, but must not reduce by more than 1/2 or else damage may occur to the pump/impellor.

Fluval make no mention anywhere about how much or how long you can regulate the filter using the aquastop valve lever.

On the technical side, as an engineer, if you overload, by restricting the flow, a permanent magnet motor (which most of fish pumps are) as the impellor is no longer keeping phase with the mains due to overload it starts to demagnetise the impellor. Thus will fail in much shorter time than expected lifetime.

Understood; but in the below statement from the instructions it states the motor is monitored and adjusted with regards to power absorption and performance which I understand to mean that if the motor was being restricted that less power was sent to the motor to slow it down.

'Advanced Motor Performance The Fluval G is powered by a three component advanced technology drive system providing power, long term reliability with virtually zero noise and high performance. The powerful yet compact synchronized dual drive coil is controlled by one of two Fluval G microprocessors which continuously monitor and adjust start speed, impeller direction, power absorption and performance. The ferrite impeller spins on an aluminum oxide ceramic impeller shaft and rides a high temperature performance polymer thrust bearing offering a unique combination of wear resistant properties. With unheard of quality components, advanced control system and low energy consumption the Fluval G drive pumps equate to unparallel durability and performance.'

@ian_m how would you interpret the wording from the manufacturer if you were just average Joe on the street?

 

[Zeus.]

I sent an e-mail to ehiem about their 3000l/h external pump and about adjusting the flow by reducing the current/volt they said NO, so I tried it anyway and they was correct with insufficient power the pump just buzz away

 

[sciencefiction]

The AquaStop valve lever can also be used to regulate the water flow with no harm to the motor or its components.

Well, according to this sentence, regulating the flow via the valve level will do no harm to the motor or its components. It does not specify it is only intended for temporary use. On the contrary, as it says "also" If it is written on the manufacturer's warranty, then they're to honor it. Implying something in the warranty is the same as saying it outright, though one has to prove that too.

Customer won't' do anything until you threaten with a solicitor, providing you're chasing a free repair/replacement. You're probably not the first inquiring about that, and they just have a ready response denying everything.
Customer reps can tell you anything to get you off the case...Some bite the bullet, some don't. You have to seek your rights.

 

[Andrew Butler]

@Zeus what would you think if you were to have read the product literature before purchase?

 

[Andrew Butler]

You have to seek your rights.

Yes, they all lay with the people I purchased the product from.
Management at Fluval aren't the slightest bit interested and were quite rude to me.
I was calling about another fault with the filter which is completely unrelated but when it came up in discussion I had the flow restricted as it was a bit too much for my tank he told me that was all wrong.

 

[sciencefiction]

I was calling about another fault with the filter which is completely unrelated but when it came up in discussion I had the flow restricted as it was a bit too much for my tank he told me that was all wrong.

They're catching on to words. Tell them that if it wasn't for it being written on the warranty, you would have never restricted the flow. So essentially it is still their fault. The customer service could be outsourced, so you may not have been speaking to someone that has any connection with Fluval bar being paid for meeting service levels...

 

[sciencefiction]

Management at Fluval aren't the slightest bit interested and were quite rude to me

All customer care centres have a 2nd level support. Difficult, complicated cases, where the legal system is involved, get moved on to that unit where things are dealt with more carefully. If you threaten with a lawyer, your case might get moved on. If they were rude to you, regardless of what position the one that spoke to you holds, it is still unacceptable. You might not have spoken to any manager at all, but just to another rep that played the role of a manager. Managers only take calls when things are really escalated. In your case, you were brushed off as they could use your words against you.

 

[Andrew Butler]

All customer care centres have a 2nd level support. Difficult, complicated cases, where the legal system is involved, get moved on to that unit where things are dealt with more carefully. If you threaten with a lawyer, your case might get moved on. If they were rude to you, regardless of what position the one that spoke to you holds, it is still unacceptable. You might not have spoken to any manager at all, but just to another rep that played the role of a manager. Managers only take calls when things are really escalated. In your case, you were brushed off as they could use your words against you.

I'm quite sure I spoke with the right people; there are only 2 technical advisers at Fluval for these kind of things and I've spoken with their manager too - he has a history of working for trading standards so knows who is responsible and as he correctly pointed out I didn't buy the filter from them.

I'd just like to know how other people interpret the product information which I think is misleading.

 

[Zeus.]

@Zeus what would you think if you were to have read the product literature before purchase?

Well I would already know I was producing a mass produced item at a great price or couldn't find something else cheaper that could do the job. Yes you can get pumps that are fully adjustable and they work of analog 0-10v range for speed but the cost !

If I was planning to fun a filter but wanted reduce flow say for a reactor I would fit a bypass, which is what I did on my tank

 

[alto]

as he correctly pointed out I didn't buy the filter from them

That would because they market their products through retail centres - the warranty is generally (I can't think of any exceptions) held through the manufacturer with the retailer acting as their agent

It may be easiest just to go back to your retailer & get them to sort the situation
If they won't, you will need to go back to dealing with Fluval directly BUT it should state on your sale receipt that retailer is exempt from the process
You can certainly state there was a previous miscommunication & filter has never been operated for any length of time at reduced flow rates
- equal levels of disingenuousness

 

[Andrew Butler]

You can certainly state there was a previous miscommunication & filter has never been operated for any length of time at reduced flow rates

I don't have a problem with flow at the moment but if its going to damage the filter i dont want to run it at reduced flow.
I brought filters that were slightly too big so I could dial them back as advised by a rep and I thought the literature advised this too.

 

[Zeus.]

'AQUASTOP System The AQUASTOP system makes maintenance easy, allowing you to stop the water flow by simply bringing the AQUASTOP valve lever into an upright position. By completely lifting the release lever, the AQUASTOP assembly can be removed from the filter without separating the hosing. The AQUASTOP valve lever can also be used to regulate the water flow with no harm to the motor or its components.'
Page 7
'Advanced Motor Performance The Fluval G is powered by a three component advanced technology drive system providing power, long term reliability with virtually zero noise and high performance. The powerful yet compact synchronized dual drive coil is controlled by one of two Fluval G microprocessors which continuously monitor and adjust start speed, impeller direction, power absorption and performance. The ferrite impeller spins on an aluminum oxide ceramic impeller shaft and rides a high temperature performance polymer thrust bearing offering a unique combination of wear resistant properties. With unheard of quality components, advanced control system and low energy consumption the Fluval G drive pumps equate to unparallel durability and performance.'

http://www.fluval-g.com/features_e.php
AQUASTOP
With its proprietary technology the AquaStop system makes maintenance easy, allowing you to stop the water flow by simply bringing the AquaStop valve lever into an upright position. By lifting the AquaStop release lever, the complete assembly can be conveniently removed without separating the hosing. The AquaStop valve lever can also be used to regulate the water flow with no harm to the motor or its components.

But yes it does read like you can control the flow with the lever.