How to remove ammonia from aquasoil prior to use

[hotweldfire]

Or from other active substrates?

Context is I want to add some to an existing mature tank to build up a slope at the back. My previous experience of doing this was amazonia in -> a big ammonia spike -> fish death. Unfortunately I can't remove inhabitants when doing this.

The other issue is I need to add it in a week so whatever process might do the job will have to be quick. E.g. could I sit it in a bucket and run a small internal filter in it? I assume this is pointless as it will still leach when disturbed?

Alternatively is there another substrate I could use? Nutrients in the soil aren't that key per se as I dose EI. More important that it has high CEC. How about akadama? I know it messes with KH but it won't leach ammonia right?

 

[Sonnyarba]

In my opinion, just soak it in a bucket and do daily water changes, and it should remove ammonia after week or two.

 

[Tom]

Akadama would be fine, as would Aquasoil Africana or Malaya - just depends if you're fussy about colour!

 

[hotweldfire]

In my opinion, just soak it in a bucket and do daily water changes, and it should remove ammonia after week or two.

Thanks. Will it not still leach when I disturb it by putting it in the tank though?

Akadama would be fine, as would Aquasoil Africana or Malaya - just depends if you're fussy about colour!

Really? So only amazonia leaches ammonia? Not too fussed about colour as don't plan to have any of it exposed eventually.

However, this is off the description of africana on AE but most of it reads like a generic description of aquasoil rather than specific to this type:

Once you have set up with Aquasoil we recommend you wait 3 weeks before adding live stock. This is due to the NH4 spike which occurs (essential for aquatic plants at the beginning) but harmful to livestock. After 3 weeks you can begin to add freshwater shrimp and then fish.

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ada-aqua-soil-africana-3l-powder-p-5742.html

 

[SuperWen]

- Use carbon active as your filter media for a month or two
- do a regular waterchange, everyday for 1st week, three times a week for 2nd week, twice a week for 3rd week, and once a week for 4th week
- using filter from mature tank helps a lot
- using water from mature tank doesnt help

 

[hotweldfire]

Not doubting your obvious experience Tom but this worries me:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...ord-about-biologically-active-substrates.html

Adadama is basically baked clay, right? Surely that has ammonia/ammonium in it?

- Use carbon active as your filter media for a month or two
- do a regular waterchange, everyday for 1st week, three times a week for 2nd week, twice a week for 3rd week, and once a week for 4th week
- using filter from mature tank helps a lot
- using water from mature tank doesnt help

Thanks Wen. Basically you're saying empty the ammonia out by lots of water changes. Have you tried this approach with higher grade shrimp?

Combining this approach with what Sonnyarba suggests might be viable. I could also chuck in job lots of seachem prime.

Also, does active carbon absorb ammonia? I thought only metals.

How about using purigen? Or will that soak up the nitrates in my EI dosing?

 

[Tom]

I have no experience with akadama so i might be wrong. however, have a look at the online aquajournal section on substrates re. ammonia content. I would give you a link but im on my phone

Tom

 

[hotweldfire]

This one?

http://www.aquajournal.net/na/notes/001/index.html

 

[Tom]

Yep. Have a look at the chart that shows the NH4 content across the different soils.

 

[ceg4048]

Or from other active substrates?

Context is I want to add some to an existing mature tank to build up a slope at the back. My previous experience of doing this was amazonia in -> a big ammonia spike -> fish death. Unfortunately I can't remove inhabitants when doing this.

If you look down about 3 posts in that APC link, you see that plantbrain gave you the solution to your mineralization goal. It's a pity that all the other posters were heaping praise on the original post, which is completely full of holes and yet they completely ignore the only post in the thread filled with wisdom.

Here is your solution=>

With sediments like soils and commercial brands like ADA AS which have NH4, this can be mineralized and reduced over time...by heat/boiling etc,

Tom explained the mechanism of the mineralization in terms of contact of the sediment particles with Oxygen so that heat force feeds Oxygen into the sediment thereby oxidizing the NH4+. So just bake the Aquasoil for a few hours say, at 350 degrees.F or boil it for a few hours and you will mineralize it without having to wait three weeks. I'd worry a little about boiling and breaking down the structure. Baking would be easier and less messy, but it's unclear which is more effective.

The other issue is I need to add it in a week so whatever process might do the job will have to be quick. E.g. could I sit it in a bucket and run a small internal filter in it? I assume this is pointless as it will still leach when disturbed?

The issue is more related to time. One week is not enough for the bacteria but it would be better than nothing.

Alternatively is there another substrate I could use? Nutrients in the soil aren't that key per se as I dose EI. More important that it has high CEC. How about akadama? I know it messes with KH but it won't leach ammonia right?

Yes, this is a better choice because this is just clay and it may be much less expensive if you can find it. In fact any gravel from your LFS would do if you're not worried about nutrition. There are only a few substrates imbued with ammonium. People seem tho think that NH4+ content is a property of clay but this is a completely false assumption. ADA have to bake on the nutrients with special procedures. Amazonia, and possibly the Oliver Knott equivalent include NPK, trace elements and peat baked on the surface of the particles. This makes it an awesome product, but for your purposes this is all irrelevant. You shouldn't even be considering Amazonia for this project.

Also, does active carbon absorb ammonia?

Activated carbon has ZERO adsorption of ammonia, however there are some filtration products that use activated carbon as a matrix upon which other chemicals that do adsorb ammonia can be bound. Carbon also does not do a very good job of adsorbing heavy metals. The mechanism of activated carbon relies on van der Waals force. This is yet another quantum mechanism which involves the redistribution of electrons within a molecule due to the presence of other molecules or other atoms. The redistribution causes the molecule to become a dipole (or multipole) and these dipoles are then weakly attracted to the carbon structure. So the attraction of carbon to certain materials has nothing to do with what class of products they are, but instead to the magnitude of the resulting electronic disturbance within that particular molecule. As it turns out, heavy metals (such as lead), ammonia, acids, alcohols and many other inorganic materials do not rearrange their electronic structure that easily and therefore do not become strong dipoles/multipoles. Carbon is best used to adsorb some organic materials because a key property of organic materials such as proteins and enzymes is that they have higher degree of susceptibility to electronic redistribution, so the van der Waals force has a stronger effect with these materials.

How about using purigen? Or will that soak up the nitrates in my EI dosing?

Purigen has a strong attraction to organic forms of Nitrogen, not to our inorganic NO3.

Cheers,

 

[hotweldfire]

Thank you all for very helpful advice. Unfortunately I'm afraid I've wasted your time. Having played around with the manzanita that's going into my tank I've decided to change my plan on the rescape and as such won't be needing to add depth to the back. Sorry. Hopefully this thread will be of use to others.