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How long does it take for plants to adapt from immersed to submersed?

Julian

Julian

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Joined
20 Jul 2013
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688
In order to stop my immersed grown glosso from melting, now that it is submerged I'm having to overdose on CO2.

My question is, how long do I have to keep this up for? I'd like to add fish eventually but can't at the moment as they'd most likely die.

I know the plants take a while to adapt but does anyone know how long?

Thanks
 
Can't say a time but I suppose you can lower CO2 when you can see no more emersed growth. Its taken my tank months to grow fully submerged but I have been struggling to get all the parameters right so in a correctly set up tank it could take a matter of weeks. Some emersed rotala wallichi that I added recently has just grown submerged straight from the crown almost immediately, whereas rotala rotundifolia grew a submerged shoot from a leaf node, leaving emersed growth to die back. My point is different plants in different conditions will take varying times to establish.

Good luck
 
Thanks guys. A lot of things have started to make sense recently. I was always trapped in the matrix, thinking that any plant could be grown as long as my DC was green. Which is probably true - but only once that your plants have adapted.
 
:thumbup:

I have found a pH pen has made a huge difference, allowing me to make informed decisions based on real evidence, not hunches! Given time I feel my tank is now finally going in the right direction as well!

I have also found that no matter how much you read personal experience is the most important thing, reading just points you in the right direction and gives you the best possible start.
 
Indeed. I wish I'd kept a journal from when I first started this hobby. I made so many mistakes when I first started. I think I have most of it in my head, might make a guide one day, need a few decent scapes under my belt before I can start preaching though!
 
Julian said:
Thanks guys. A lot of things have started to make sense recently. I was always trapped in the matrix, thinking that any plant could be grown as long as my DC was green. Which is probably true - but only once that your plants have adapted.
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Green dc? Heres mine with fish in the tank
Picture559_zps0f464e36.jpg
Green is very safe yellow is pushing the limit. A good ph pen helps because there can be a delay with drop checkers, mines 2.5-3 hours.
My dc was still blue/green when i nearly gassed my fish.
I've found you cant really measure anything, easily/accurately in your tank but by watching fish, plants, ph/tds pen, dc you can get a very good idea of whats going on but you have to gain valuable first hand experience to be able understand it fully.
Making mistakes is a valuable part of learning too, my friend and i set a couple of tanks up and had no big troubles with algae etc even with sloppy maintenance but when i later set my cube up i had lots of problems, light,co2,flow etc.
Have you started a journal for this setup?
 
Yeah I do have a journal, it needs a lot of updating but haven't had the time. I came to the same realisation that watching your plants fish is the best method. DC's are wildly inaccurate as you mentioned. I switched to ADA substrate recently and my DC was green even before I'd added any CO2 - I understand this is because the substrate lowers the pH and this is what the DC measures. I think I'm almost liberated from the matrix,. You've helped me before and so as Clive, many thanks for your input.
 
Good example of understanding WHAT you are measuring............in order to interpretate the readings.
DC tell you about pH, not amount of CO2. It's just an easy and convenient way of "visualizing".
 
Mick.Dk said:
DC tell you about pH, not amount of CO2
Click to expand...

The drop checker is measuring the pH of the gas in the drop checker, which changes as it reaches equilibrium with the level of dissolved carbon dioxide in the water. It is not 100% accurate due to the unreliable methods we adopt to push water and CO2 around the tank.
 
Henry said:
The drop checker is measuring the pH of the gas in the drop checker, which changes as it reaches equilibrium with the level of dissolved carbon dioxide in the water.
Click to expand...

I used to have Eco complete in my tank, which to my knowledge is inert. Every morning (before CO2 comes on) my DC (with 4dkh water) would be blue. Since switching to ADA Amazonia, instead of being blue, in the mornings my DC is lime green.

I know ADA substrate lowers pH, which in turn changes the colour of the DC, but how does this process work? How can a solid (substrate) be measured by a DC if, like you say, it only measures the pH of gas?

Just trying to get a clearer picture, as your statement suggest that only gas can change the colour of a DC. From my experience, it seems that anything in the tank that lowers pH will affect the DC.
 
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Hi all,
Julian said:
I switched to ADA substrate recently and my DC was green even before I'd added any CO2 - I understand this is because the substrate lowers the pH and this is what the DC measures.
Click to expand...
Henry said:
The drop checker is measuring the pH of the gas in the drop checker, which changes as it reaches equilibrium with the level of dissolved carbon dioxide in the water. It is not 100% accurate due to the unreliable methods we adopt to push water and CO2 around the tank.
Click to expand...
Julian said:
Just trying to get a clearer picture, as your statement suggest that only gas can change the colour of a DC. From my experience, it seems that anything in the tank that lowers pH will affect the DC.
Click to expand...
Henry is right.

The pH of the water shouldn't effect the drop checker colour. The drop checker works because it has an air gap and 4dKH/bromothymol blue pH indicator in it.

It should only reflect changes in the HCO3- ~ CO2 (H2CO3) equilibrium.

If the drop checker is set up properly the only way the ADA substrate could effect it was by having a lot of organic material that was being decomposed and producing extra CO2.

cheers Darrel
 
Thanks Darrel,

They were new bags of ADA, all I did was empty them into them into the tank dry (I didn't rinse them), then filled the tank with water and put the DC in. The DC was blue at this point as you would expect (it had been out of water, sitting on a table). Initially the water was a little murky but cleared after a few hours, then I noticed the DC was lime green.

I put it down to the substrate lowering the pH of the water as I knew it did this, but Henry's comment seemed correct also.

Your conclusion seems like the only logical explanation, but is this a good or a bad thing? More CO2 in the water sounds good, but decaying organic matter..? :crazy: I know I'll probably be fine, just paranoid!
 
Hi all,
Part of the reason for using soil in the Walstad method was so that the substrate would contribute CO2 to the water column. Details are in the <"Siesta.."> thread.

Personally I like a relatively nutrient poor substrate and a lot of gas exchange (<"large gas exchange surface">), so that levels of dissolved gases in the water column more closely track atmospheric levels (dependent upon the level in the atmosphere, temperature, barometric pressure and the solubility of the gas).

I'm not too worried about CO2 levels (400ppm, but very soluble), but I want to ensure that the tank water is always fairly fully saturated with dissolved oxygen (~20% of atmosphere, but relatively insoluble).

cheers Darrel
 
Should I expect the production of CO2 from decomposing ogranic matter to last a while or does the effect disappear relatively quickly? I imagine water changes get rid of it eventually?
 
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