Help me compare general purpose light fixtures

[LMuhlen]

I'm looking at non-aquarium specific light fixtures to see if there is room for saving some money. Still a preliminary idea, but in theory they would be used together with red and blue LED fixtures I already have.

1st option:
50W
LED light flow: 9500 Lumens
Average effective light flow: 8000 Lumens
Color Temperature: 6500K
Aperture angle: 90º
IP67 protection
I think I read somewhere that they use Philips LEDs
5 years warranty
Cost: 325 BRL

2nd option:
50W
Light flow: 5000 Lumens
Color Temperature: 6500K
Aperture Angle: 90º
IP67 protection
1 year warranty
Cost: 77 BRL

From the specs, the only differences are price and lumens. I know that lumens and plants don't talk directly, but considering the similarity between the fixtures, I'm imagining that the proportion can be extrapolated to an eventual proportion between the not-informed PAR.

Is the difference of > 50% in light flow something that exists in LEDs for the same power consumption, or should I assume that the second fixture is not really a 50W fixture and that the informed power is not the electric power consumption, but the sum of the maximum power for the individual LEDs used?

Any other comments?

 

[Maf 2500]

2nd option might be less efficient because it is using less quantity of physical LED's, thus putting more power through each one to a point where they work less efficiently. Would make sense given the difference in price and warranty length. Underdriven LED's last much longer and produce less heat too, in addition to being more efficient.

If you could find out how many actual physical LED's there are in each fixture (and ideally the power rating per LED) you will have a much better idea what you are getting for your money.

 

[oreo57]

I'm looking at non-aquarium specific light fixtures to see if there is room for saving some money. Still a preliminary idea, but in theory they would be used together with red and blue LED fixtures I already have.

1st option:
50W
LED light flow: 9500 Lumens
Average effective light flow: 8000 Lumens
Color Temperature: 6500K
Aperture angle: 90º
IP67 protection
I think I read somewhere that they use Philips LEDs
5 years warranty
Cost: 325 BRL

2nd option:
50W
Light flow: 5000 Lumens
Color Temperature: 6500K
Aperture Angle: 90º
IP67 protection
1 year warranty
Cost: 77 BRL

From the specs, the only differences are price and lumens. I know that lumens and plants don't talk directly, but considering the similarity between the fixtures, I'm imagining that the proportion can be extrapolated to an eventual proportion between the not-informed PAR.

Is the difference of > 50% in light flow something that exists in LEDs for the same power consumption, or should I assume that the second fixture is not really a 50W fixture and that the informed power is not the electric power consumption, but the sum of the maximum power for the individual LEDs used?

Any other comments?

Warranty is a partial judge of quality.
5yr vs 1...
Of course you could buy the 1yr one every year for 385 brl total.
The 160 lumens/watt is currently possible, though a bit unlikely, with low cri 6500k LEDs.
Luxen C data.

It is unlikely to have good cri.
9500 lumens may be " theoretical" so I used the lower number.
The second lights 100 lumens/watt is sort of standard for current average LEDs.
CRI can be anything.

Besides the power density difference and the limited info I see no advantage to the more expensive light.

 

[LMuhlen]

2nd option might be less efficient because it is using less quantity of physical LED's, thus putting more power through each one to a point where they work less efficiently. Would make sense given the difference in price and warranty length. Underdriven LED's last much longer and produce less heat too, in addition to being more efficient.

If you could find out how many actual physical LED's there are in each fixture (and ideally the power rating per LED) you will have a much better idea what you are getting for your money.

They don't say how many LEDs are used, but there are images. Option 1 looks like it has only 12 LEDs and Option 2 has 48.

I just found a third option that has exactly the same specs as Option 2, but is even cheaper, 45 BRL...

Besides the power density difference and the limited info I see no advantage to the more expensive light.

Thank you for your analysis. My biggest concern was that the cheap options would turn out to operate at much less than 50W, as this is a very common practice with Chinese fixtures. They do some mental juggling to dissociate electric power consumption and fixture power, often boasting about amazing efficiency with their lights that consume only 12W but generate 50W of light. I assume that our local market would inhibit these practices, but who knows...

If you say that 100 lumens/watt is average, then possibly they aren't lying and I'll probably buy one of them to try.

 

[oreo57]

They don't say how many LEDs are used, but there are images. Option 1 looks like it has only 12 LEDs and Option 2 has 48.
View attachment 219744
View attachment 219742

I just found a third option that has exactly the same specs as Option 2, but is even cheaper, 45 BRL...
View attachment 219743



Thank you for your analysis. My biggest concern was that the cheap options would turn out to operate at much less than 50W, as this is a very common practice with Chinese fixtures. They do some mental juggling to dissociate electric power consumption and fixture power, often boasting about amazing efficiency with their lights that consume only 12W but generate 50W of light. I assume that our local market would inhibit these practices, but who knows...

If you say that 100 lumens/watt is average, then possibly they aren't lying and I'll probably buy one of them to try.

What the wattage actually is is really secondary to how efficient it is..
You count photons not watts

Yes the Chinese get creative in labelling.
Like the reef tank common " black box " led that has the TITLE of " 165w" while actually consuming at 100% 110 watts. And also has ( or had) poor conversion of electricity to photons. Dye to the tight focus (60 to 80 degree lenses) the light over performs expectations.

 

[LMuhlen]

What the wattage actually is is really secondary to how efficient it is..
You count photons not watts

I guess this is the essence of my questioning. Is there room for a 50% higher efficiency in 6500K white LEDs? Are the numbers for both models believable, or is someone lying?

I remember you saying 1~2 US$/W for fixtures with more or with less features, but that third model is less than 0,20 US$/W.

 

[Mike Singh]

Hi
Due to the uncertainties with respect to the quality and output, it may be better in the longer term to purchase an aquarium specific light. The modern lights like the Chihiros are very customisable via their app: timers, intensity and colour.
“Spend now to save later”

 

[oreo57]

I guess this is the essence of my questioning. Is there room for a 50% higher efficiency in 6500K white LEDs? Are the numbers for both models believable, or is someone lying?

I remember you saying 1~2 US$/W for fixtures with more or with less features, but that third model is less than 0,20 US$/W.

Well how I used watts in the above is a generalization with the assumption of equal efficiency across models. Holds fairly true for main stream "stick" lights.
I could have easily said 1-$2 / 100 lumens. Except for the fact that RGB lights have a lumen count lower than its photon count since red and blue are under-sampled in measuring lumens
The under sampling isnt soo important with like 6500k leds. Besides one is comparing like to like. The 6500k bit. Not 3000k vs 6500k or RGB vs 6500k

As to believable.. sure with a bit of exaggeration probably or "best case".

New CREE ..Exceptional for a 4000k led.

Cree LED has released its J Series® 5050C E Class LEDs with the industry’s highest efficacy for high power LEDs: 228 lumens per watt (LPW) typical at 4000K, 70 CRI and 1W. The new J Series LEDs deliver up to three times the light output of competing 5050 LEDs at the same efficacy level.

New 5050C E Class White LEDs Offer Substantial Cost Savings - Cree LED

J Series® 5050C E Class LEDs offer breakthrough light output, high efficacy and long lifetimes for directional lighting applications Cree LED has released its J Series® 5050C E Class LEDs with the industry’s highest efficacy for high power LEDs: 228 lumens per watt (LPW) typical at 4000K, 70 CRI...

www.cree-led.com

 

[LMuhlen]

Hi
Due to the uncertainties with respect to the quality and output, it may be better in the longer term to purchase an aquarium specific light. The modern lights like the Chihiros are very customisable via their app: timers, intensity and colour.
“Spend now to save later”

I would very much like to buy a nice aquarium specific light, but for the price of a chihiros 120cm pro 2, I can buy ~15 fixtures of the more expensive model I mentioned, or 100 of the cheapest one. Even if I buy some of the cheap fixtures for a test and don't like it, it was worth it just for the slight chance that they are good enough and I got to save a lot of money.

 

[LMuhlen]

Hey @oreo57 , since I have your attention (or anyone else who might want to chime in), with all those spectrum simulation tools that you use, is it possible to find an approximated ratio to compare the PAR values of an RBGW fixture and a standard 6500K white fixture close to 100 lumens per watt?

Something like... for the same power, and RGBW fixture generates 50% more PAR than a white light?

 

[oreo57]

Hey @oreo57 , since I have your attention (or anyone else who might want to chime in), with all those spectrum simulation tools that you use, is it possible to find an approximated ratio to compare the PAR values of an RBGW fixture and a standard 6500K white fixture close to 100 lumens per watt?

Something like... for the same power, and RGBW fixture generates 50% more PAR than a white light?

Well "par" (ppfd) treats all photons between 400-700nm equally so as long as their watt efficiency is equal par will be equal.

Now if you get into " pur" where you treat them unequally ( green photons have lower value than red photons) then they are different.

That said green leds are horribly inefficient and of "lesser value" ( pur-wise) than red or blue LEDs.

Best to ignore lumen ratings.

 

[LMuhlen]

In conclusion to this thread, I bought and installed the new fixtures.

First, I'd like to mention that when I was about to close the deal, I did a last minute safety check and discovered that many of the stores I'd been visiting online were fake... That added another layer of work to the process of deciding which to buy.

I then found a supplier that said they assembled their own fixtures, using the same body and overall specs as the one in option 2, the store actually existed and the product was sold through a reputable online dealer. They use Osram LEDs, which means nothing to me other than it being a name I recognize.

There was a catch, though, as they used 60º lenses. I tried visualizing that in my tank and came to the conclusion that it is a positive thing, especially since I plan on going carpet heavy in my next layout.

I'm still waiting to see if there will be an algae explosion. It is very clear that the added light is much stronger than what I had, especially because my other lights are very red and blue heavy and don't shine that bright. My smart plug confirms that they consume 52W each, so that was a relief, after buying a few Chinese fixtures that never delivered what was promised. On first inspection, I noticed that the LEDs aren't very well centered in the lenses, but I suppose that's to be expected from a cheap product. In the tank, it is very clear that the beam is tight, it looks even tighter than 60º... My current setup has a lot of stuff happening near the surface that are not being properly illuminated, but this shouldn't be an issue when I rebuild it.

The light looks very much like sun light, color-wise. Together with my "indoor growth" fixture, built with mostly blue and red LEDs, the end result is interesting. Still requires some getting used to, but I consider it an improvement.

All in all, given the cost, I liked it. Time will tell if it was a trap or not.

 

[oreo57]

In conclusion to this thread, I bought and installed the new fixtures.

First, I'd like to mention that when I was about to close the deal, I did a last minute safety check and discovered that many of the stores I'd been visiting online were fake... That added another layer of work to the process of deciding which to buy.

I then found a supplier that said they assembled their own fixtures, using the same body and overall specs as the one in option 2, the store actually existed and the product was sold through a reputable online dealer. They use Osram LEDs, which means nothing to me other than it being a name I recognize.

There was a catch, though, as they used 60º lenses. I tried visualizing that in my tank and came to the conclusion that it is a positive thing, especially since I plan on going carpet heavy in my next layout.

I'm still waiting to see if there will be an algae explosion. It is very clear that the added light is much stronger than what I had, especially because my other lights are very red and blue heavy and don't shine that bright. My smart plug confirms that they consume 52W each, so that was a relief, after buying a few Chinese fixtures that never delivered what was promised. On first inspection, I noticed that the LEDs aren't very well centered in the lenses, but I suppose that's to be expected from a cheap product. In the tank, it is very clear that the beam is tight, it looks even tighter than 60º... My current setup has a lot of stuff happening near the surface that are not being properly illuminated, but this shouldn't be an issue when I rebuild it.

The light looks very much like sun light, color-wise. Together with my "indoor growth" fixture, built with mostly blue and red LEDs, the end result is interesting. Still requires some getting used to, but I consider it an improvement.

All in all, given the cost, I liked it. Time will tell if it was a trap or not.

Sounds promising.
One thing though, this isn't necessarily true since your eye is less sensitive to red and blue.
You would need to compare par.

It is very clear that the added light is much stronger than what I had, especially because my other lights are very red and blue heavy and don't shine that bright.

 

[Mike Singh]

In conclusion to this thread, I bought and installed the new fixtures.

First, I'd like to mention that when I was about to close the deal, I did a last minute safety check and discovered that many of the stores I'd been visiting online were fake... That added another layer of work to the process of deciding which to buy.

I then found a supplier that said they assembled their own fixtures, using the same body and overall specs as the one in option 2, the store actually existed and the product was sold through a reputable online dealer. They use Osram LEDs, which means nothing to me other than it being a name I recognize.

There was a catch, though, as they used 60º lenses. I tried visualizing that in my tank and came to the conclusion that it is a positive thing, especially since I plan on going carpet heavy in my next layout.

I'm still waiting to see if there will be an algae explosion. It is very clear that the added light is much stronger than what I had, especially because my other lights are very red and blue heavy and don't shine that bright. My smart plug confirms that they consume 52W each, so that was a relief, after buying a few Chinese fixtures that never delivered what was promised. On first inspection, I noticed that the LEDs aren't very well centered in the lenses, but I suppose that's to be expected from a cheap product. In the tank, it is very clear that the beam is tight, it looks even tighter than 60º... My current setup has a lot of stuff happening near the surface that are not being properly illuminated, but this shouldn't be an issue when I rebuild it.

The light looks very much like sun light, color-wise. Together with my "indoor growth" fixture, built with mostly blue and red LEDs, the end result is interesting. Still requires some getting used to, but I consider it an improvement.

All in all, given the cost, I liked it. Time will tell if it was a trap or not.

Show us a picture!

 

[castle]

Show us a picture!

And send us a link to where you got them!