Frustrated..changed to bigger tank and can't grow plants anymore!!!

[curefan]

If you make the spraybar longer the flow will not reduce at all. The force the water comes out of the holes will reduce yes 🙂. If you want to get really technical you could buy a full length pipe the same size and make smaller holes in it to equate to the same force over it's length but that is in IMO getting over the top for something that will make no difference. If anything the flow might increase IF it was being restricted at all by the spraybar because it will reduce a restriction.

I would personally either buy another spraybar and link it with hose or make a full length one. You could even buy a cheapo spraybar of that length. I wouldn't worry too much about the filter pressure coming out of those holes. If it is lower pressure full length it might help you in allowing you to point it downward and therefore pointing the CO2 downwards.

You have plenty of power to sort out circulation in your Tunze's. Look at the filter as doing filtering and injecting and use the Tunze's to move the CO2 around.

I would have the spraybar running the length of the tank with the same size holes, The same amount of water will come out but at lower force, point it as much downward as possible without it blowing the substrate around and then with the poiwerheads move them around until you are happy the CO2 is moving nicely around the tank.

Ok, I increased the size of the spray bar to almost the full length of the tank BUT, there is only a trickle coming out of it now. I know you said the Tunze's would create enough flow but I'm still concerned especially since my co2 will be coming out of the spray bar via Atomizer. Do I need be concerned that it is a trickle?????
Cheers.

 

[alto]

Do I need be concerned that it is a trickle?????

Yes

Pull your filter apart & give everything a good cleaning: rinse the bio-media free of debris using tank water or treated tap (whichever suits but if using tap, cooler is better than warmer), use a hose brush to get all the gunk out of the tubing & filter intake/out-take, thoroughly rinse out any sponge & filter floss/poly (replace if you like).
Then if you're feeling bold, pull apart the flow rate indicator & remove that flow restrictor, then check your flow rate ... obviously you can measure flow rate after just the thorough clean, then consider if you want to remove the flow indicator/restrictor.

 

[curefan]

Thanks for your input...
Well the flow rate it actually quite good, its just that the spray bar is so long now, about 4ft, so i don't really reckon the cleaning is going to improve things much if the indicator is showing good flow? Would i be better off spending more money and getting a 2nd filter and have 2 shorter spray bars (hoping i could avoid the extra cost and clutter, but if it has to be done so be it)
Cheers, Dave.

 

[alto]

It's a bit of heresy here but why do you need the long spray bar?
Amano doesn't, there are loads of tanks with thriving plants that use ADA & Do Aqua & other branded lily pipe returns.

What you do want is good flow through your tank, so add something that will allow you to visualize this - could be a stream of CO2 or air bubbles or small particle frozen food (anytime I feed daphnia or baby brine shrimp I get a pretty good idea of tank circulation).

I'd sooner buy in some new fluorescent tubes for a try rather than a new filter ... I can do the former for a lot less $$ & I'll use them eventually, even if I decide the old ones were not a significant factor after all.

I know you want certain plants in this tank, but just get something growing well, I believe you have substrate & water column fertilizers & CO2 & light, so plants should grow: pick up an easy stem plant from a reputable source (in my area Tropica is consistent in quality, & I buy from a shop that specializes in plants so stock is always fresh & in good condition) & give it a go.

If plants melt away, then tank conditions cannot be what you believe.

How are the fish in terms of activity & color?

 

[Iain Sutherland]

you can just cover every other hole in the spray bar with electrical pvc tape. It will double the strength of jets. Failing that you may need to supplement flow with a powerhead...

 

[alto]

supplement flow with a powerhead...

You don't think there's enough flow in this tank re these tank specs from OP (Tunze has a pretty decent reputation, I'd be surprised if both pumps were not delivering close to spec)?

Tunze 6045 Nanostream pump x2 both open full......4500L/h x2
Eheim 2180 thermo filter (1700L/H)

 

[alto]

pic up....as you can see all dead plants cleared out...Co2 now off....no point in wasting it. Was talking to Green Machine....they reckon the problem was that i wasn't using the 4 bulbs initially as the tank is 2ft deep and said those plants need more light....well they do know what they are talking about, right?
Anyway, here is a pic, you may see something obvious that i missed...

Thought I might as well go back & add some commentary

CO2 off: that's fine but realize that when you restart CO2 fish may need to adapt to the higher levels of dissolved CO2 in the water column, so go carefully.
A fun paper to read

2 foot deep tank & PAR at the substrate level: I think TGM has a point here ...
From an old journal posted by zig

one thing I did note was that the Eleocharis parvula grew incredibly compact under the Osram lighting, it was almost hugging the surface of the substrate as it grew over each other. Under different lighting (using Geismann lamps now) it grows more upright in the same tank and substrate even when I add extra watts.

Subtle differences in lighting can effect significant changes in plant growth.

If you decide to try new T5 tubes, I'd also play at dropping the water level ... I can't really tell from the OP whether you've ever had much growth in this tank as I can't figure the time frame for this tank, but I'm assuming that lamps were used on a previous set up.

Is the substrate some sort of aquasoil? old or new?

If the plants are not completely melted, there is a chance of some revival ... at least if you get some new growth on the existing mess, you 'll know it's "safe" to invest in new plants 😉
Do you need to import from TGM or is there a local shop with decent plants?

(note that with excess debris in the system, you'll be fighting algae, so I'd do daily water changes while trying to "revive" those mostly melted plants, also need to stay on top of debris trapped by the filter)

 

[curefan]

Cheers Alto...I think I will buy at least 2 new T5's....any recommendations on tube type??
The substrate is old Aquasoil. Tank is cleared of all old plants, so might start again with easier to grow plants and see if I can gradually change to more demanding ones, as it would be more cost effective than killing a whole tank of plants. Ill probably get them shipped from the Green Machine. I had growth in this tank before with less demanding plants such as staurogyne repens.

Thanks everybody for input so far....much appreciated.

 

[alto]

I use Giesemann HO T5's (for a 2 foot high tank I only looked at HO T5), local supplier has the Giesemann range on display;
as of 2014 Giesemann has 7 options, click on each lamp for spectra etc ... of course it's mostly marine/reef oriented 😉
In a 4 light luminaire I've 2 tropic (midday) & 2 super flora (aqua flora) - old names in brackets, slight changes in the newer bulbs - I never run just the flora bulbs as they cast a red/pink hue.

There are other brands which will work just as well, look at spectra & lumens (PAR if available) & cost.

Re old Aquasoil, consider whether you want to add any substrate nutrient before replanting ... if you're good at daily fert it's likely not worth the hassle, also if you've done the whole layering of ADA products, I've just do a good vacuum of the surface to remove debris.

 

[petn]

I got two externals and the spray-bar attached to both outcomes. One spraybar over the leght-two filters outcomes.

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[petn]

Also I'd start testing with easy plants and wait until they show progress. It may all be connected to a new tank, bacteria colonies developing etc. One simple plants work in thus tank with that setup, id suggest to add me demanding plants. That way You will narrow the area of what is actually happening. Good luck!!

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