For the Start is dark and full of terrors

[Bence]

my first planted tank...ever

 

[Bence]

Hello Sirs,

This is my first tank, my first post. My name is Bence, from Hungary.

First of all, I need your help, bc it looks I will loose.

My tank, day 1

DSC_1205 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Day 18

DSC_1309 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

problems coming soon...

 

[Bence]

This tank was a cichlid tank. So it has a huge DIY background I was not able to remove... not really common in planted tanks, I know. A 25 cm part is separated on the side for filter media.

Tank: 160 cm width x 80 cm x 60 cm height

Lights: Metal halide, 3 x 150W, Osram Powerstar HQI-TS 150W/CD RX7s-24 EXCELLENCE, 6500K, 11500 lumen

DSC_1287 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Filter: DIY sponge prisms (not sure about the english name) 2 eheim pumps (2000l/h each), 8 prisms 7x10x45cm (1 of the pumps goes on 1000 l/h, because it goes through a UV lamp)

DSC_1127 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

filter is behind the background, on the side

DSC_1288 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

I use RO water. 2 x 75 GPD membrane. Automated flush! I'll write about it later. I have a 160 liter container for the water.

DSC_1277 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Dosing: EI macro, and Hungarian brand micro.

DSC_1279 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

CO2: high pressure with 2 'Cerges' reactor on both pumps

DSC_1285 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

 

[Bence]

Let me give you some info on the start.

Sold my poor little cichlids in the spring 2018... They were my first love regarding aquatics, but I always wanted to have planted.

I upgraded all the technology around the tank to fit the new needs. Electricity, RO water, automation, lights, etc.

Hardscaping.

Elevation from lava stones

DSC_1178 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

I marked black lines with permanent marker on the glass - thirds, golden ratio etc. I looked more professional that way. Everyone asked, what are those lines? I answered them like I know what I'm doing... Never used those lines. Plus: that was permanent marker! It took half an hour to remove... Dont go full retard, please!

Geotextil and stones

DSC_1180 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Dennerle 9 in 1 soil - 1-2 cm thick

DSC_1187 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Bacter100, tourmaline bc, clear super

DSC_1190 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Amazonia 3-4 cm, la plata sand, stones

DSC_1193 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1194 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Planting

DSC_1197 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Filling up

DSC_1199 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Didn't know how to plant Monte Carlo. I did not plant it deep enough! Lots of floating

DSC_1203 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

done

IMG-5c2dd451a538bd1c074d1e432a432730-V by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

 

[Bence]

Plants

Hemianthus Callitrichoides Cuba - 10 pcs
Micranthemum Sp. Monte Carlo - 13 pcs
Rotala spec. green - 5 pcs
Rotala rotundifolia - 5 pcs
Rotala Vietnam Hra - 5 pcs
Rotala wallichii - 3 pcs
Rotala indica - 4 pcs
Staurogyne Repens - 5 pcs
Myriophyllum Guyana - 5 pcs
Vesicularia Ferriei Weeping moha - 13 pcs
Nymphaea Lotus (zenkeri) - 2 pcs
Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini' - 3 pcs
Anubias Barteri v. Nana Petite - 5 pcs
Eleocharis parvula mini 'pusilla' - 1 pcs

 

[Bence]

Day 2

DSC_1205 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1206 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1207 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Day 3

DSC_1209 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Day 4

DSC_1213 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1214 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1215 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

blue led

DSC_1220 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Day 7

DSC_1224 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1225 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1226 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

MC melting

DSC_1227 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Day 11

DSC_1233 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Lotus green algae - cut off the leaves

DSC_1237 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Guayana melting from down to top

DSC_1238 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Staurogyne melting leaves

DSC_1239 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1240 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Rotala Indica melting

DSC_1242 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

All Anubias petite melted from rhyzome

DSC_1260 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Day 14

goodbye guayana, indica anubias

DSC_1268 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1269 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

And Welcome algae (mostly diatomes)

DSC_1270 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

Day 17

leave me alone, pls

DSC_1304 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1305 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1306 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

DSC_1310 by Bence Tóth, on Flickr

 

[foxfish]

It looks fantastic although it took about 5 mins for all the pictures to load 🙂

 

[Bence]

Dear Sirs,

Some serious help needed here, please!

Let me summarize:

1. Melting. From day 3-4 I saw signs of melting of MC. All plants are from Tropica, so I know it can be emers-submers changing, that's ok. MC seem to come back pretty good, I'm not worried about that. But Guayana made a great development, than after a week it started to turn yellow, than black than disappeared. Staurogyne also. Rotala Indica also. Now, after 18 days, rotala rotundifolia stems started to flow on the surface. I checked and saw that the stems melted in the middle of the stem! Wallichii also. These two had no problem until now! I hate to see my plants just disappear! Whats wrong?

2. Yellow. Seems the leaves are not green enough, but yellowish... Whats that?

3. Diatomes. Wise man says it will disappear in two weeks. Hope so. Can I do anything to speed it up?

4. MC floating. I know I messed up at planting. MC is floating up in patches. Should I pull it up and replant them?

5. Water is not clean enough...

I'm sure you would ask these:

A made 160 l water (RO) change for 16 days. I'm planning to do it every other day.

I don't use GH booster, my TDS is around 180 anyways.

I added CO2 from day 1. Drop checker yellow.

Lights on for 5 and a half hours a day.

Ferts from day 1. In the morning micro, 6 hours later macro. Sometimes I dosed twice because of the water changes.

I was told that this hobby will calm me down... i just need to cut the beautiful healthy plants in the weeked, while I listen to meditation music, drinking pure fountain water and eating rose petals...

Instead I'm on the edge... Please help, I don't want to give up!

 

[Onoma1]

Looks amazing...and it's your first attempt!!!

 

[Bence]

Looks amazing...and it's your first attempt!!!

thx, but no...
it looks awful and i could cry

 

[Onoma1]

Hmmm ... Fantastic detail, great plants, superb textures and placing of plants and it's still very new. Can't wait to see it when it matures. Nothing to cry about!

 

[foxfish]

Well the symptoms look like the classic... too much light for the amount of C02 available ...
This could be related to flow but the drop checker can be deceiving too.
Have you considered doing a PH profile?
How is the water circulated?

 

[rebel]

Wow what a great first attempt. This is better than many of us after years of planted tanks!

Just reduce light by 20% and add some otocinclus for that diatoms ( I assume the tank has cycled).

 

[Konsa]

Hi
1. It is not uncommon for some plants to melt away when planted in new Aquasoil Amazonia.I have had it with foreground plants(Staurogine, HC cuba,Pogostemon helferi....) mainly.I think is sth to do with initial tank imbalance and I resolved it with increasing oxygen levels at lights out by adding air stones on timers when lights are off.
Often those plants bounce back if not melted completely or can be reintroduced successfully after things have settled in 5-6 weeks after the start.
2.That might be just the lamp spectrum some kelvin temperatures make green plants to appear yellow to the eye.
U have Amazonia(very nutrient rich) and U dose so your ferts are covered for deficiencies.
3.Diatoms are not stubborn algae.Once plant mass is increased and plants are established will go away.Meanwhile its easy to rub it off glass and brush it off with toothbrush from stones to keep it in check.
4.Any plants that seem loose can be just pushed down.U dont need to rip all out and replant.
5.Your Tank has quite a large footprint and it seems your flow is only arround 3000l/h wich is quite a low flow for 700+ liters high tech.The rule of thumb is 10x tank volume per hour.
Once plants grow in they will do most of the biological filtration but U need to make sure your flow is good for distribution of CO2 and nutrients as increase in plant mass also will restrict flow.
6.Starting with Amazonia is normally done with large 50% frequently done waterchanges.Everyother day may be enough for first few weeks but U need to change 50% + as minimum and then when U see good growth all arround switch to once weekly.
7.For that size tank and those strong lights I dont know how much CO2 U are dissolving with intank diffuser.It is not one of the most effective metods.
How long before your lights on your CO2 is comming on.U need to achieve the lime green drop checker on lights on and staying that colour for the full lenght of photoperiod.Try to move it arround the tank to see if U have consistency in readings everywhere arround the tank.U can even as advised do a PH profile to get better idea.
Have a look here for CO2 injection and flow in high volume tank.Its a long read but will give U plenty of useful advice.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/olympus-is-calling-maxspect-gyres-fitted.43046/

8.Algae crew(Amano shrimp,Cherry shrimp , Otos,SAE ,snails😱)will help with algae but I will wait with that till U get the CO2 tuned up first.
And at least 6 weeks from the start as a minimum due to the Amazonia high Ammonia load.
Any particular reason why U use RO water?
Do U cut it with tap?

Regards Konsa

 

[Barbara Turner]

Instead I'm on the edge... Please help, I don't want to give up!

The start is the hardest bit.. It should get easier as the tank becomes established and the plants get larger. My first tank felt like a battle against algae to start with. It sounds like most of the things you are doing right.

If you don't have any fish I would be doing big cleaning sessions followed by 70 - 80 % water changes every other day.

Do you have a dimmer on the light? other option is to add some floating plants, you can pull them out in 3 months time when everything has settled down. You can also learn alot by there growth as there not limited by co2.

Flow rate will also have a big effect, is the co2 being transported to where its needed? can you put the drop checker near to the plants that are struggling?

Are you using 100% RO, I use to use 2/3rds RO 1/3 tap water. I'm not sure what the water is like in Hungary but if your filtering your own it makes water changes hard work. I was using it in the hope to breed fish.

Ps just double checking that your not running blue at night?

 

[Konsa]

Hi
U use reactors not intank diffuser.Thats good.Just noticed one on Day 7 picture and commented on it.lol
Everything else from 7. post still implies tho😀
No giving up thoughts yet.U are set up for a winner here and U have just started the journey!!!!
Regards Konsa

 

[ceg4048]

Hi Bence,
I agree with much of what Konsa mentions in his post. I too question why you are using RO water. It seems a lot of trouble for very little advantage, unless you intend to populate the tank with Soft water fish, but even so, it's not necessary.

Although I love the look of Metal Halide, 450 watts is a LOT to start off with. You are really inviting trouble by haaving so much light. That is the main reason for the algae.

I searched the thread and the images seem to suggest that you are using ADA Aquasoil? Is this new or are you re-using it from before? The best thing when using NEW Aquasoil is to put it in the tank with all lights OFF for about 3 weeks. Aquasoil is extremely rich in Ammonia and the buildup of the Ammonia over time can trigger algal blooms, especially in the presence of strong lighting.

If you do not reduce the lighting, and if you do not perform large weekly water changes, the diatomic and other algal blooms will continue to grow and it will be a LOT longer than 2 weeks for it to subside.

Your filtration system seems very complicated to me and I'm not sure i understand the arrangement.
The 3rd picture in post #3 appears to be a chamber in which you have a pump? I can't see where you are diffusing the CO2, but you might try injecting the gas in that chamber.

I also cannot see how your filter outlet to the tank is arranged, but you did manage to get nice growth in many of the plants, so maybe it's OK.

So probably you just need to reduce the lighting as a first step, clean and scrub the tank and remove as much algae as you can by hand and then see how it goes from there.

I disagree with any advice to get fish or other animals. They do not solve your basic problem and they make it very difficult to experiment or to make drastic changes because you always have to worry about their health. If you haven't already purchase animals I would suggest to leave them out for now.

Cheers,

 

[Edvet]

I wonder how your flow is.

 

[Bence]

Wow! What a great international community is here! You are very helpful, thank you!
Let me answer your questions one-by-one.

Hmmm ... Fantastic detail, great plants, superb textures and placing of plants and it's still very new. Can't wait to see it when it matures. Nothing to cry about!

I needed this, Good Sir!

Well the symptoms look like the classic... too much light for the amount of C02 available ...
This could be related to flow but the drop checker can be deceiving too.
Have you considered doing a PH profile?
How is the water circulated?

PH profile is measuring a lot, right? Before, during ad after co2. I have an arduino PH sensor. I can measure it as much as I want. I'm going to log it, and let you know the results.
Water flow - I will explain it in the next post.

 

[PARAGUAY]

Never think this was a first planted, well done