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Dying Amanos
- Thread starter Gabriela Valdivia
- Start date
Fertilizer - is this a dosage for a high tech fast. growing tank where 50% weekly water changes are common? Or is this the directions for a low tech slow growing tank
(your plant growth looks amazing for a non-CO2 Flex (which has relatively low light)
Temp - you could decrease this for shrimp (they’d likely prefer 21-22 longterm) but Betta would be less thrilled, I’d likely try 24
Regular parameters - not sure what you’re referring - tap water parameters (check with your local water/municipality for detailed water analyses, they should be available for at least the last 10 years, indicating averages, seasonal variations, daily data collections - municipal water in Canada is constantly being tested) or tank parameters???
You don’t mention if you check tank vs tap before you do those 50% water changes
George Farmer does 70-80% water changes on his tanks, has large active shrimp breeding population (mostly cherry I think, though there may be some Amano) and doesn’t have any issue
I also do very large water changes without shrimp loss
Some people are very conservative with regards shrimp and water changes (and some shrimp demand conservative environs, eg, Sulawesi species (and rift lake species), extreme line bred variants)
If you purchased your shrimp through a local shop, discuss their shrimp care (more applicable if shop maintains shrimp in display aquariums)
10% weekly water change is a very low percentage when maintaining a planted tank - this small amount of removed water won’t impact parameters much, but also limited removal of any possible unwanted components (such as increasing nitrogen’s, DOCs related by plants etc etc)
Instead you might try 35% weekly water changes
BUT
Until you sort out the shrimp water change issue, I’d suggest daily 10% water changes, then after a couple weeks, do a 35% change - if all seems well, try twice weekly 35% water changes, then transition to weekly 35% water change
Don’t move to larger water changes until you know more about your tap vs tank water
A knowledgeable aquarium shop should be aware of tap water parameters and any local issues with water quality, your municipal site may track any water repairs etc in the district, also flooding etc
I’ve lived in 100 yr old homes with the original copper pipes, and very soft acidic tap water - no shrimp deaths in my aquariums 😉
Sounds like you may have a diatom algae in your aquarium - can you brush always the brown spots?
Though it may also be sediment related - microfines in tap water or from aquarium soil depositing on plants (I once thought I had the worst diatoms ever 😳)
Again the 10% water changes tend not to be sufficient for “cleaning” of an aquarium (even with plants you still want to remove the substrate debris)
As for the “light green tint” - depending on your location and water source, this may be “green water” which is often a Spring Thing in my aquariums (re tap water source)
You might add some Seachem Purigen or Matrix (carbon) to your filter - much more cost efficient than those Flex branded products - to improve water clarity etc
Check the Seachem product pages and FAQ etc to choose which product - you might also contact Seachem tech support via the discussion board with aquarium details/shrimp issues for product recommendations
Filipe Oliveira’s excellent video
Gabriela Valdivia
Seedling
Hello!
Thanks for the video, I learnt a few things. I was surprised to se Mr, Oliveira using those old type filters. i will get my municipality water information.
Maybe there is a chemical that reacts with one of the Fertilizers and creates a toxic product increase during water changes...
Thanks for the video, I learnt a few things. I was surprised to se Mr, Oliveira using those old type filters. i will get my municipality water information.
Maybe there is a chemical that reacts with one of the Fertilizers and creates a toxic product increase during water changes...
Gabriela Valdivia
Seedling
Alto, thank you.
also for the Fertilizers, it is Nilocg Thrive for low tech aquariums and it comes with liquid carbon.
My plants got like that within three months I planted it. (You can see the photo in the section “from this to this”
I have Fluval Substrate. So yes, the growth was AMAZING and fast. Then the fast growing plants stoped growing and were getting brown so I started dosing with Thrive.
-I put the temp at 24.
-I was talking about tank parameters.
-And no, the brown dust cannot be removed, it is permanent. I think too that is a deposit of something in the water.
- I use the. Fluval complète kit to test my aquarium water and I compare my results with their charts. Apart from the temperature and the chlorine, I never test the fresh water before putting it in the aquarium...
- So I went to the aquarium store yesterday so they could test my water. They said everything is within acceptable range but Nitrates were high. So I came home and did a 35% water change.I also bought a bit of floating plants to help with the Nitrates.
I asked them about the shrimps and they said it is probably the change in Ph as they are sensitive to it...
So I guess problem solved?
But I still have problems with the weird oily film on my water and the brown dusty stains / deposits on my leafs..
also for the Fertilizers, it is Nilocg Thrive for low tech aquariums and it comes with liquid carbon.
My plants got like that within three months I planted it. (You can see the photo in the section “from this to this”
I have Fluval Substrate. So yes, the growth was AMAZING and fast. Then the fast growing plants stoped growing and were getting brown so I started dosing with Thrive.
-I put the temp at 24.
-I was talking about tank parameters.
-And no, the brown dust cannot be removed, it is permanent. I think too that is a deposit of something in the water.
- I use the. Fluval complète kit to test my aquarium water and I compare my results with their charts. Apart from the temperature and the chlorine, I never test the fresh water before putting it in the aquarium...
- So I went to the aquarium store yesterday so they could test my water. They said everything is within acceptable range but Nitrates were high. So I came home and did a 35% water change.I also bought a bit of floating plants to help with the Nitrates.
I asked them about the shrimps and they said it is probably the change in Ph as they are sensitive to it...
So I guess problem solved?
But I still have problems with the weird oily film on my water and the brown dusty stains / deposits on my leafs..
Maybe
That seems a rather a rote answer
(I’ve had shops insist that my pH 6.0 is going to kill my fish even after explaining that I keep mostly wild caught species from low pH natural waters 😉 and that I MUST start using some sort of Buffer Up chemical to keep my tank at pH 7.4 etc 🙄 )
Is there not a pH test in the Fluval Complete kit?
It seems an easy check
Note that most healthy livestock is well able to manage pH swings of approximately 1 pH unit
I would not use floating plants in the Flex, when they grow quickly (and utilize nitrates) they will also be covering the entire surface, and below water plants will be significantly shaded
And it’s not as if you are only keeping very shade tolerant plants such as Anubias
The oily film seems unusual for a Flex, do you have a filter outflow directed towards the surface for surface “agitation”
I’m somewhat sceptical about which liquid carbon would be present in the fertilizer, and subsequent stability over time
https://www.nilocg.com/shop/thrive-c/
OK it’s not the same type of composition as Seachem Excel, so ignore my stability concern, instead pickup Seachem Excel and use as an algecide 🙂
Read through the Seachem Flourish Excel page directions, FAQ etc; you can also do a Search of their Discussion Forum for more information and user questions
You might try some firm but gentle brushing of the Anubias leafs to see if you can physically remove some of the algae, then follow this up with increased tank maintenance (daily water changes), and Excel
Your observation of initial good growth from plants for 2-3 months, then significant slowed growth is not that unusual for low tech aquariums (one suggestion is that emerse grown pot plants initially use stored nutrients)
George Farmer did a videos series on a low tech AIO system
(you can pick some of these up via his ukaps Profile page of “all threads by ... ”, also his YouTube channel (choose oldest first as most of these are 2015-2017))
Knowing your local water parameters would be helpful, you should be able to link a municipal report
While water dependent deposits can occur on plants, this is quite unusual
this too would be a rare occurrence
Some precipitation in hard water is not uncommon, but a toxic byproduct would be unusual
I suggest contacting nilocg in this regard - go through technical support rather than sales 🙂
This was a change when he moved the tank to his kitchen counter - it would’ve been awkward to run the original canister filter (there are a few videos following the development of this tank)
Apologies over the multiple replies, sometimes I cannot maneuver (properly) within the reply box
Gabriela Valdivia
Seedling
Hi!
It is actually better if replies compartmentalize the information cause it makes it easier for me to read and take notes so, no worries about multiple replies.
I noted all the ideas and advise and will follow through.
One important point you made is the one about Nilocg Thrive because when I dose with it , next day yo see this brown deposits on the leafs. I will get in contact with them.
THANK YOU for the time you took to help me. I will follow through with all the advise!
It is actually better if replies compartmentalize the information cause it makes it easier for me to read and take notes so, no worries about multiple replies.
I noted all the ideas and advise and will follow through.
One important point you made is the one about Nilocg Thrive because when I dose with it , next day yo see this brown deposits on the leafs. I will get in contact with them.
THANK YOU for the time you took to help me. I will follow through with all the advise!
Matt @ ScapeEasy
Member
I suspect it’s all a bit simpler than this personally...
If the LFS is concerned about nitrates this potentially indicates they are extremely high. I have had a dosing issue with a complete fertiliser like yours which led me to the same scenario - dying amanos. And in fact this is how I became aware of the issue. It is curious as to why the water change would lead to deaths... a sudden change in parameters is our assumption. Unfortunately I can’t advise from direct experience here as I had only the two amanos and had lost them both by the time I had diagnosed the issue but I suspect the high nitrate may have led to the initial vulnerability in the amanos and this problem may possibly remain if you are still undertaking reduced water change volumes. This would indicate to me that the plants you have in your tank are not up taking the nitrates you are dosing as quick as you are adding them. You don’t mention the plant species you have but if they are predominantly slow growing species this is most likely the case and the solution would be to vastly reduce your dosing to allow the nitrate levels to slowly reduce over the next few months with your water changes. Once you are in a more stable position you should then be able to increase the water change volume slowly, each week look for any concerning changes in behaviour in your amanos as you increase the % changed. Also if they moult then cease dosing your ferts that week and skip a water change as again they will be extra vulnerable during this time.
In summary:
Step 1 reduce dosing significantly and test nitrate levels regularly to monitor them coming down (may take many weeks but given your past experience, important to do this slowly)
Step 2 when nitrates stable, begin to increase water change %, keep monitoring nitrate and watch for any convening behaviour change in the amanos
Step 3 when able to control nitrate rise between water changes to less than 20 ppm you could start to increase Fert dosing levels.
reather than use excel or another form of liquid carbon as algae control which ultimately is a very dangerous chemical. You might also like to complete a blackout on the tank. 4 days with no sunlight at all ( wrap tank in a blanket and done even peak in) and see where that leaves you first.
If the LFS is concerned about nitrates this potentially indicates they are extremely high. I have had a dosing issue with a complete fertiliser like yours which led me to the same scenario - dying amanos. And in fact this is how I became aware of the issue. It is curious as to why the water change would lead to deaths... a sudden change in parameters is our assumption. Unfortunately I can’t advise from direct experience here as I had only the two amanos and had lost them both by the time I had diagnosed the issue but I suspect the high nitrate may have led to the initial vulnerability in the amanos and this problem may possibly remain if you are still undertaking reduced water change volumes. This would indicate to me that the plants you have in your tank are not up taking the nitrates you are dosing as quick as you are adding them. You don’t mention the plant species you have but if they are predominantly slow growing species this is most likely the case and the solution would be to vastly reduce your dosing to allow the nitrate levels to slowly reduce over the next few months with your water changes. Once you are in a more stable position you should then be able to increase the water change volume slowly, each week look for any concerning changes in behaviour in your amanos as you increase the % changed. Also if they moult then cease dosing your ferts that week and skip a water change as again they will be extra vulnerable during this time.
In summary:
Step 1 reduce dosing significantly and test nitrate levels regularly to monitor them coming down (may take many weeks but given your past experience, important to do this slowly)
Step 2 when nitrates stable, begin to increase water change %, keep monitoring nitrate and watch for any convening behaviour change in the amanos
Step 3 when able to control nitrate rise between water changes to less than 20 ppm you could start to increase Fert dosing levels.
reather than use excel or another form of liquid carbon as algae control which ultimately is a very dangerous chemical. You might also like to complete a blackout on the tank. 4 days with no sunlight at all ( wrap tank in a blanket and done even peak in) and see where that leaves you first.
Hi @Gabriela Valdivia
Did your fish store give you a figure for the nitrate in your tank? If so, what was it? And is this the test kit you are using:
https://fluvalaquatics.com/us/product/master-test-kit/
If so, it includes nitrate and pH. That being the case, you could test both the pH and nitrate of your tap and aquarium water. May I suggest you do this and, along with the fish store nitrate figure (?), we can then take it from there.
One other thing - which substrate material are you using? This may not be important but I like to get 'the full picture'.
JPC
Did your fish store give you a figure for the nitrate in your tank? If so, what was it? And is this the test kit you are using:
https://fluvalaquatics.com/us/product/master-test-kit/
If so, it includes nitrate and pH. That being the case, you could test both the pH and nitrate of your tap and aquarium water. May I suggest you do this and, along with the fish store nitrate figure (?), we can then take it from there.
One other thing - which substrate material are you using? This may not be important but I like to get 'the full picture'.
JPC
