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Oops, not a nightmare, but only when necessary.
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Dropsy
- Thread starter Conort2
- Start date
FISHnLAB
Member
Yes I was quoting Michael and just clipped his first sentence. I'm not sure what happened there, sorry....
Fixed...
Sorry, I may have been a bit harsh with my wording😔. That is my opinion of the comment none the less. I probably should have said "what a ridiculous comment but, maybe I don't understand fully. Please explain".
That's a scary thought and we are doing such a great job so far🙄(sarcasm)...
Yep, drop in the bucket and most aquarium antibiotics are old ones not used much anymore on humans(at least that's my understanding).
Yep it's a problem but, not a surprising result when we try to circumvent nature.
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Erythromycin, for example, is still frequently used. Similarly, so is amoxicillin. I’ve seen reference to both of these being used in aquaria.
FISHnLAB
Member
Really? I don't know a ton about meds but, I don't think they prescribe Erythromycin much anymore in favour of newer options. Either way, I believe animals deserve the same treatment as humans if not better. Luckily, meds are relatively easy to get by veterinarian prescription, or over the counter in many countries, so one can make their own decision for their animals.
Erythromycin | Drugs | BNF content published by NICE
View erythromycin information, including dose, uses, side-effects, renal impairment, pregnancy, breast feeding, important safety information and directions for administration.
Where newer options are used in its place, have you asked yourself why that might be necessary?
MichaelJ
Member
I personally don't think thats got anything to do with it. It's more about civility than anything else. What I have learned is that you can have a really good conversation with people you disagree with. Here on UKAPS we are communicating in written language with people from all walks of life, languages, cultural backgrounds etc. For some, that may set the bar fairly high in terms of how to express themselves. People who feel they can not meet that bar may choose not to participate and that is fine.
Cheers,
Michael
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Guest
Guest
I think that sums the situation up very succinctly.Erythromycin | Drugs | BNF content published by NICE
View erythromycin information, including dose, uses, side-effects, renal impairment, pregnancy, breast feeding, important safety information and directions for administration.bnf.nice.org.uk
Where newer options are used in its place, have you asked yourself why that might be necessary?
It's an arms race and we're running out of ammunition.
They’re allowed to, whether they can, is a different question all together. 😉
John q
Member
Guys
From someone that takes antibiotics daily to stay alive I find this discussion, well shall we say interesting 🤔. Truth of the the matter is prescription antibiotics to humans is the defacto reason for antibiotic resistance, the blame lays with our health services, point blank.
Does that mean we should ration it towards animal welfare.... obviously not. The big question nobody asks is "Do antibiotics actually help fish?"
The answer is usually no... in 90% of the cases the fish still die, that's why we should argue against widespread antibiotic treatment in fish by hobbyists.
From someone that takes antibiotics daily to stay alive I find this discussion, well shall we say interesting 🤔. Truth of the the matter is prescription antibiotics to humans is the defacto reason for antibiotic resistance, the blame lays with our health services, point blank.
Does that mean we should ration it towards animal welfare.... obviously not. The big question nobody asks is "Do antibiotics actually help fish?"
The answer is usually no... in 90% of the cases the fish still die, that's why we should argue against widespread antibiotic treatment in fish by hobbyists.
MichaelJ
Member
I think that is probably a very reasonable assessment, and can probably be said about aquarium meds in general.
Cheers,
Michael
xZaiox
Member
I think this quote below is part of the issue I have with the whole 'unethical' argument.
This begs the question for me - what even is the best way to dispose of antibiotic laden water? I've surprisingly not returned many solid answers from google. Most of the answers regarding antibiotic disposal refer to human antibiotics, with the advise to take it back to the pharmacy. For us hobbyists, what is the best way to get rid of it? Run it through activated carbon and chuck in the garden?
It almost feels akin to calling someone unethical for doing their washing on high heat whilst major oil and coal companies are doing far more damage to the environment. But alas, the threat of antimicrobial resistance is very real and I guess it's best for every individual to do what they can to reduce it. It feels a bit pointless sometimes when the major contributors won't change, but I guess there's not much I as an individual can do about that.
This begs the question for me - what even is the best way to dispose of antibiotic laden water? I've surprisingly not returned many solid answers from google. Most of the answers regarding antibiotic disposal refer to human antibiotics, with the advise to take it back to the pharmacy. For us hobbyists, what is the best way to get rid of it? Run it through activated carbon and chuck in the garden?
I guess my experience with this has been very different - I find the antibiotics vastly more effective than the antiseptics we get over the counter. I've saved fish with Kanaplex with fairly good success rates... granted it's not 100%, but the majority recover. I previously just used the likes of eSHA 2000, and I find it can work for minor lesions, ulcers and fin rot, but anything beyond that, the medication hasn't helped at all (for me). I've saved fish with Columnaris, dropsy etc with Kanaplex. I would like to learn the best way to dispose of it though.
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MichaelJ
Member
The civility and great mix of common sense- and knowledgeable people in general, is why I choose to dedicate a good chunk of my time here. I wouldn't dedicate a New York minute to some of the other forums I've occasionally come across where people are just shouting at each-other in futility when they disagree and no-one learns anything. Of course, sometime we all can get carried away a little bit, that happens, and it is human nature when we are passionate about something, but occasionally we just see that some people have a hard time to moderate themselves with no will or effort to improve... and that's of course a different and potentially more serious situation for the wellbeing of a forum such as this.
Cheers,
Michael
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thought I’d give a quick update. The fish is still going, swelling has reduced a lot but its still breathing extremely rapidly. Not sure what the dropsy is linked to, I would’ve thought if it was bacterial it would’ve been long gone by now. I haven’t added any treatments and have upped the temperature to 28 degrees on the advice of pier. Still not holding out much hope but the fish has improved a lot and is moving around occasionally now. At its worst the fish wasn’t moving for days at a time. Fingers crossed it makes it.
Cheers
Cheers
John q
Member
No idea myself but I do know pier tend to keep their tanks at 27~28 degrees, maybe the drop in temperature has caused the fishes inner workings to slow down and this is the reaction.
Purely guessing on this one..
Thanks for the update, fingers also crossed.
Not a clue, the female has been fine throughout. The issue with having a fish like this is there is no information about its habitat.
Fish is now back to normal to my surprise, albeit a bit skinny due to not feeding for a long time. Breathing has returned to normal and it is acting how a whiptail should now. No idea what caused it and I was certain this fish was doomed. I’m very pleased.
This was how bad it was for a while.
This was how bad it was for a while.
Myrtle
Member
That's fabulous news! Did you do anything specific or did he spontaneously recover on his own?
Increased the water temperature from 24 to 28 degrees as recommended by the shop I got them from and just maintained good water quality with regular water changes. Nothing else.
