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Converting a large aquarium - suggestions welcome!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Darwin88
  • Start date Start date
Darwin88 said:
Hehe you're quite the LED sceptic aren't you?! emoji12.png
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Its just that people go banging on about the wonderfulness & efficiency of their LED lighting decisions, failing to realise more efficient lighting has been around for years. I have only just come back to using LED lights in my house (currently only 5 LED bulbs, out of 52 bulbs) after being an early whole house "LED conversion'ist" and paying the price. Basically the LED fixtures failed or got uselessly dim. Got money back on most, B&Q led bulbs and on-line purchases, but wasted more money than I should have saved !!!

Darwin88 said:
As for regular domestic tubes being good enough for plants?
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Plants need a thing called light to photosynthesise and grow 😱. Fluorescent tubes give out light regardless if they are for use in your house or fish tank. Plants to a first approximation don't require any special spectrum, just choose tubes that make your plants look good to your eyes. If you are happy, plants will be happy.😀

Look at the pictures here and choose the type of tube that you think will make your plants look good.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cheap-ho-t5-fluorescent-tubes-update-with-photos.555/

Personally using a too lower temperature tube (yellow, warm white etc) makes the plants look too yellow and using a too higher temperature 8,000K and above (marine actinic etc) makes the plants look whitish and washed out.

I have the iQuatics 4 tube on my Vision 180. I put in two Juwel High Lite tubes as I think my plants looked better with mixture of tropical and high lite (day light) tubes. You can have either 2 tubes or 4 tubes on.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/lighting-suggestions-for-juwel-vision-180.39407/#post-432875

Note that Juwel aquarium tube lengths are a different length than standard tube length and do cost more.
 
EdwinK said:
Or as 4 as is in ian_m's link. I think it is more versatile option.
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There isn't a huge cost difference either so you're probably right. It comes supplied with tubes, options are marine white or tropical.

How do plants fare under marine white light? I ask because I've had tropical tubes before that are really pink in colour that I find a bit too much. If domestic tubes are sufficient for plant growth too then I'm guessing the difference is negligible and it's just down to personal preference?
 
ian_m said:
Its just that people go banging on about the wonderfulness & efficiency of their LED lighting decisions, failing to realise more efficient lighting has been around for years. I have only just come back to using LED lights in my house (currently only 5 LED bulbs, out of 52 bulbs) after being an early whole house "LED conversion'ist" and paying the price. Basically the LED fixtures failed or got uselessly dim. Got money back on most, B&Q led bulbs and on-line purchases, but wasted more money than I should have saved !!!

Plants need a thing called light to photosynthesise and grow 😱. Fluorescent tubes give out light regardless if they are for use in your house or fish tank. Plants to a first approximation don't require any special spectrum, just choose tubes that make your plants look good to your eyes. If you are happy, plants will be happy.😀

Look at the pictures here and choose the type of tube that you think will make your plants look good.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cheap-ho-t5-fluorescent-tubes-update-with-photos.555/

Personally using a too lower temperature tube (yellow, warm white etc) makes the plants look too yellow and using a too higher temperature 8,000K and above (marine actinic etc) makes the plants look whitish and washed out.

I have the iQuatics 4 tube on my Vision 180. I put in two Juwel High Lite tubes as I think my plants looked better with mixture of tropical and high lite (day light) tubes. You can have either 2 tubes or 4 tubes on.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/lighting-suggestions-for-juwel-vision-180.39407/#post-432875

Note that Juwel aquarium tube lengths are a different length than standard tube length and do cost more.
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I missed that post when I asked the above question. That's really helpful stuff Ian, thank you. I'm genuinely considering this as an option now. It's far cheaper than the LED option in that this would give hands down full coverage of the tank whereas the same cost LED application would be a bit of a guessing game.

House lighting, I replaced all mine when I plastered over all the Artex ceilings, so far so good after 2 years. They're all built in sealed units that don't have replaceable bulbs so if it goes, the whole thing has to be replaced. They came with a 7 year guarantee which reassured me they'd be fine. The future will hold the answers!
 
Darwin88 said:
How do plants fare under marine white light ?
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Plants will have no problems with marine white light. You will have problems as the plants will look washed out and not very green.

Darwin88 said:
I ask because I've had tropical tubes before that are really pink in colour that I find a bit too much
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This is what I found with the supplied iQuatics tubes, which is why I put in two day light tubes.

I think your light choice (LED or T5 tube) now depends on how you want your total setup to look (and how thick your wallet is :arghh:)

Are you going to hang the lights using a ceiling suspension kit ?

Are the lights going to rest on the rim of your tank ?

With LED (TMC tiles) you will need a controller, 5 tiles full on will melt all plants to algae of not careful.

LED tiles if mounted on a "sexy mounting" can look very modern and look the "biz".

With 4 tubes of T5 start with 2 tubes, with reflectors bent round to deflect light from the tank. Then straighten reflectors and add more tubes as your tank settles in and you get control of your tank.
 
ian_m said:
Plants will have no problems with marine white light. You will have problems as the plants will look washed out and not very green.

This is what I found with the supplied iQuatics tubes, which is why I put in two day light tubes.

I think your light choice (LED or T5 tube) now depends on how you want your total setup to look (and how thick your wallet is :arghh:)

Are you going to hang the lights using a ceiling suspension kit ?

Are the lights going to rest on the rim of your tank ?

With LED (TMC tiles) you will need a controller, 5 tiles full on will melt all plants to algae of not careful.

LED tiles if mounted on a "sexy mounting" can look very modern and look the "biz".

With 4 tubes of T5 start with 2 tubes, with reflectors bent round to deflect light from the tank. Then straighten reflectors and add more tubes as your tank settles in and you get control of your tank.
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If I go for the iquatic, I'll probably choose two marine white/two tropical and see what the combination looks like. Worse case scenario is to do as you have done and swap out the tubes.

I prefer a sealed hood so I'm planning on using acrylic to make a water proof lid with the lighting inside. I'd planned to mount LED's so that the heatsinks were sticking through the hood to aid heat dispersion. The t5's would have to be completely inside the hood which leads to overheating as a consideration.

I love the LED shimmer, but that's pointless if I can't maintain healthy plant growth by not having enough LEDs as 5 tiles is out of my budget.

You mentioned the Jewel style T5 tubes were a different size and thus I'm captive to their prices - I'm struggling to find out from the iquatics website if all of their fittings are designed to take these Jewel style tubes? Are yours the Jewel style?

Thanks
 
Darwin88 said:
Are yours the Jewel style?
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As my iQuatics unit is for a Juwel Vision 180 it takes 742mm 35W Juwel length tubes.

Hmm...just looking on their it appears all the units take Juwel sized tubes, certainly the 100cm, 120cm and 150cm units do.

The "standard" sized T5 tubes they sell are for the pedant T5 lighting units.
 
ian_m said:
As my iQuatics unit is for a Juwel Vision 180 it takes 742mm 35W Juwel length tubes.

Hmm...just looking on their it appears all the units take Juwel sized tubes, certainly the 100cm, 120cm and 150cm units do.

The "standard" sized T5 tubes they sell are for the pedant T5 lighting units.
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Yeah that's as much as I could gather too. I'll ask them directly, it keeps offering up a chat box so I might as well use it!

Thanks again
 
ian_m said:
Hmm...just looking on their it appears all the units take Juwel sized tubes, certainly the 100cm, 120cm and 150cm units do.
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You're right. And they won't have stock back in for 6 weeks...

Can't wait that long, I've been planning for weeks already and I'm eager to get going. Back to the drawing board!
 
Darwin88 said:
And they won't have stock back in for 6 weeks...
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Bum.

What about these, available in up to 6 tubes and standard length tubes.
http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquarium/aquarium-lighting/aquarium-t5-lighting/

Or these. These are about 1 1/2 T5 HO brightness, but not cheap.
http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquarium/aquarium-lighting/aquatlantis-led-lighting/

What about making your own to your own specification ?
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/lets-led.41248/
Bought kit of parts from
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...led-grow-lighting-90w/504331_32317689774.html
 
ian_m said:
Bum.

What about these, available in up to 6 tubes and standard length tubes.
http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquarium/aquarium-lighting/aquarium-t5-lighting/

Or these. These are about 1 1/2 T5 HO brightness, but not cheap.
http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquarium/aquarium-lighting/aquatlantis-led-lighting/

What about making your own to your own specification ?
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/lets-led.41248/
Bought kit of parts from
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...led-grow-lighting-90w/504331_32317689774.html
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Wow, thanks for the links 🙂

I'd just got into looking at this:

https://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/t5...-x-54w-t5-complete-aquarium-lighting-kit.html

Looking at my tank my pipe work would prevent me from using the iquatics bar anyway:

f8c1a18383b34cf9f69b2cfa6da41ec1.jpg

49c46af26054f90b98a3912e72981a3d.jpg

I can't move the pipes, they're very much stuck to that placement. I think I'd be better off using a controller and just positioning the tubes around the pipe work.

I don't want a raised luminaire as where we sit to watch TV we'd have the light spill on our peripheral at all times.

Using a controller I'd sit the tubes on the brace bars, I just worry that when I make an acrylic hood, would the heat warp or even melt it? I'd hoped to have a sealed hood to keep evaporation down and to keep more co2 in the water. Hmm.
 
A worthwhile read on lighting that discusses PUR, PAR & other useful concepts

PUR, PAS, PAR in Aquarium Reef/Planted Lighting; LED Wavelengths
it's not the best format but the article includes some links

I have one tank with "new" LED lighting & another with a T5 luminaire, both grow plants (both tanks are ~55cm height) - I've come to much prefer the aesthetics/versatility/convenience of the LED
If you want a ground cover plant, lighting will need an upgrade, your Aquabar 1000 utilizes 0.4watt LED's (likely white Samsung) & I suspect that even most crypts will grow rather slowly with this light as PAR at substrate will be (very?) low.
While most crypts will tolerate poor light & no CO2, almost all respond favorably to higher energy systems

You might look at Chris Jackson's Lazy Asian Biotope for inspiration 🙂

If you're a decent DIY sort, look at
Supercoley's DIY LED Luminaire Mk III
- there are a few excellent DIY LED topics worth searching out


ian_m said:
With LED (TMC tiles) you will need a controller, 5 tiles full on will melt all plants to algae of not careful.
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I'm a bit confused about this statement as it's also mentioned that the T5's are higher lumen, more efficient etc - so why would LED require a controller (I believe there is a fairly economical dimmer option that lacks the more sophisticated programming options) and the T5 systems, not 😕
(likely I missed the T5 controller/dimmer link 😳 )



My suggestion: begin by spending the $$ on substrate that you like to look at, that you like the planting characteristics of ... you can always try adding additional Aquabars (need to track down old stock as these have been discontinued by TMC) or look into the Aquabar T series
Also look at buying used lighting systems
 
Darwin88 said:
Using a controller I'd sit the tubes on the brace bars, I just worry that when I make an acrylic hood, would the heat warp or even melt it? I'd hoped to have a sealed hood to keep evaporation down and to keep more co2 in the water. Hmm.
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You can't sit the tubes on the brace bars, the tubes run hot and may damage the bars and/or the tubes don't like "cold spots". But the iQuatics sets have clips on their tube holders that should hold the tubes clear of touching anything.

The sealed hood will stop evaporation, but won't really have any affect on CO2 unless you can make the hood 100% air tight, but then if you do may run into lack of oxygen problems. You need water surface ripple to allow excess CO2 to escape at night, but not so fast that you can't keep it in the water during the lights on time and also allow oxygen from the air to dissolve

Like the tank.

alto said:
I'm a bit confused about this statement as it's also mentioned that the T5's are higher lumen, more efficient etc - so why would LED require a controller (I believe there is a fairly economical dimmer option that lacks the more sophisticated programming options) and the T5 systems, not 😕
(likely I missed the T5 controller/dimmer link 😳 )
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It is because it is easier to dim T5's "mechanically" by rotating reflectors, adding foil rings, using sticky tape, using 2 tubes, using darkened plastic sheets etc things that aren't really possible with the LED tiles. If you just used 2 tiles out of 5 you would still get algae & melting plants under those tiles and no growth under the off tiles.
 
ian_m said:
You need water surface ripple to allow excess CO2 to escape at night, but not so fast that you can't keep it in the water during the lights on time and also allow oxygen from the air to dissolve
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Won't the sump maintain oxygen levels?
Darwin88 said:
I've eliminated water turbulence in the sump and covered it with glass but even then to reach 30ppm I was running at an uncountable bubble per second rate through an UP inline diffuser.
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Under usual running setup it would seem that tank's gas exchange is considerable.


ian_m said:
It is because it is easier to dim T5's "mechanically" by rotating reflectors, adding foil rings, using sticky tape, using 2 tubes, using darkened plastic sheets etc things that aren't really possible with the LED tiles. If you just used 2 tiles out of 5 you would still get algae & melting plants under those tiles and no growth under the off tiles.
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Not convinced that I can't just as easily mechanically dim LED's 😉 - slightly different mechanics but not so impossible 🙂
 
As I've a very similar tank as already mentioned in one of the first posts (1000L with sump and recently switched to LED from T5) I think I can give my two cents...
First off the CO2, I compared the gram/100L/day usage from my old tank (without sump but a little more light) with my new tank with CO2 and I use less with the sump. It still seems like a lot to use 3kg a month, but gram/100L/day is less than 10 which is nice I think. I do use reactors to dissolve 100%

About the light, I measured PAR with my T5 and LED. 324W T5 with individual reflectors gave the same PAR as 240W LED @80-85%. So in my case it was more economical. I did measure PAR from different bulbs and the difference was huge. You can easily double PAR, one bulb compared to another. What surprised me most was that full spectrum bulbs (Osram and Philips 9xx series) had lower PAR than the 8xx series.
About the TMC, I used the bars (old 5 LEDs version) and the 1500 tiles. Two 1500 tiles are enough to grow 95% of the plants. On a 150cm tank with only Cryptos and ferns you can use two but the spread won't be very nice so you'll better use 3. That would be about 4-6 aquabeam 600 bars, with 4 being enough for these plants and 6 when you want to grow everything.

Whatever you pick, pick that what looks most beautiful to your eyes! LED slimmer, or T5 light, I don't see much difference in growth in my tank except that in my case the LEDs are more efficient. Two of the LED units I use would be enough for your tank but you need to order a custom made with 120 degree optics when you want it in your hood. Check out my journal for pictures😉
 
alto said:
A worthwhile read on lighting that discusses PUR, PAR & other useful concepts
Click to expand...

Thanks Alto, that's good reading material.

ian_m said:
You can't sit the tubes on the brace bars, the tubes run hot and may damage the bars and/or the tubes don't like "cold spots". But the iQuatics sets have clips on their tube holders that should hold the tubes clear of touching anything.
Click to expand...

I'd planned to use the metal clips but fix those 'upside down' to the brace bars, raising them up off the glass. Should I have any concerns about the heat transfer through the clips and onto the brace bars?

Yo-han said:
Check out my journal for pictures😉
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Thanks Yo-han, yes I followed the link to your journal and read through it, very interesting stuff! What a great tank I might add. I might have to pick your brain on sump advice at a later date 😉. The aquabar's have been discontinued I believe but there might be old stock lying around. It's something to add to the growing list of lighting considerations :crazy:

Thanks to all of you for your lighting advice, I feel like I've been full circle from LED to T5's, which has led me to decide that I still need to do more research before I commit it either one! So, following alto's advice:
alto said:
My suggestion: begin by spending the $$ on substrate that you like to look at, that you like the planting characteristics of ...
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I'm going to concentrate on substrate first. I've got past the look of some of the economy options after reading through other threads and seeing how effective they look when mature. I like this thread in particular:

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/akadama-or-moler-clay.26690/

Which makes use of this:

http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/fine-grain-moler-terramol-bonsai-soil

I love the look of it, I love the price of it but I wonder how this fares in the long term. Has anyone used this substrate and for how long? What do think of it?
 
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