I would really like to understand more about the Reactor. There is a link on the website to Amazon Germany Amazon.de : JDAquatec.de but I don't speak German. Edit. Being Amazon it translates to English.
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CO2 Reactor UK sellers?
- Thread starter LondonDragon
- Start date
hypnogogia
Member
That’s about the size of it, with some form of baffle to create a vortex to dissolve the CO2. The review about it was very positive.
Wookii
Member
OK, on my PC today, so this is easier to sort. This the magazine review from their website here: Testlauf
The below is A la Chrome Translate from German to English:
The important plant nutrient carbon dioxide is supplied to the aquarium most economically in gaseous form. The CO2 must be dissolved in the aquarium water using suitable technology.
This is most effective in what are known as reactors, which are usually installed outside the basin. Here the gas is fed into a container in parallel or counter-current to the aquarium water.
This container is filled with a medium (plastic carrier, baffle plates) so that there is a strong turbulence of gas and water. This more or less completely dissolves the CO2. Such reactors are mostly used in larger aquariums.
When I got the CO2 reactors from Jörg Düren to test six months ago (two models with different hose connections), I was a bit skeptical at first, because the construction made of glued PVC parts did not allow a look inside, and the devices could be opened neither. All reactors that I know of can be disassembled for cleaning and are visible so that you can monitor their operation.
The Düren reactor consists of a cylindrical vessel with a hose connection piece placed in the middle at the top and bottom. There are versions for 12/16 and 16/22 millimeter hoses. The socket for connecting a 4/6 millimeter standard CO2 hose is attached to the side at the top and is equipped with a hose lock.
Because I really wanted to know how exactly the reactor works and how it differs from conventional models, I researched on the Internet. There I came across Düren's patent application, which describes the structure and mode of operation of the reactor.
Carbon dioxide and water enter the reactor from above (vertical installation is important). The water is deflected horizontally by a baffle plate, creating a horizontal ring vortex. The gas bubbles are broken up and largely dissolved through intensive contact with the water. The vortex also ensures that the gas that is not immediately dissolved remains in the upper part of the reactor (gas bubble) and is continuously mixed with fresh water. The H2O enriched with CO2 is guided downwards laterally through a grid and/or sponge system and exits there again via the outlet connection. Due to the design and arrangement of the baffle plate, central tube and grid-sponge system, the reactor is virtually self-regulating: the more gas that is fed in, the more carbon dioxide is released. With this model, Düren dissolved up to 5,000 CO2 bubbles per minute with a pump capacity of 500 liters per hour. That's a lot for such a small reactor (compared to other models with similar power).
Now, of course, I was curious to see whether the reactor would prove to be as good in practice as the description promised. My largest aquarium (200 x 60 x 60 centimetres, 720 liters) served as the test tank. Previously, a Dennerle Maxi pinball machine (for aquariums up to 600 liters) was responsible for dissolving the gas in the aquarium water. The flipper is only designed for tanks up to 600 liters, but I wasn't aiming for high CO2 concentrations, a basic supply of around ten milligrams per liter was enough for me. The number of bubbles required for this was 140 per minute (9 °KH). With this setting, I had the impression that the CO2 was almost completely dissolved: the bubbles rising in the pinball machine became visibly smaller, and only tiny bubbles made it to the top. A three-chamber biofilter is attached to one of the two short sides of the aquarium, which I operate with a pump capacity of 1,000 liters per hour. When I asked, Jörg Düren confirmed that the power for the reactor was OK, so I didn't have to work with a bypass. The device with a diameter of ten and a height (without socket) of 13 centimeters should be accommodated in the clear water chamber. Since space is unfortunately very limited here, the installation was tricky. The reactor is designed in such a way that the CO2 and water inlets must be from top to bottom (in cocurrent). Because the water in a biofilter is pumped from the bottom up, the installation was a bit cumbersome. The construction just barely fit into the filter chamber. To avoid the transmission of vibrations, I inserted pieces of filter mat as padding.
First I had to vent the reactor. To do this, I put the filter pump into operation, but the CO2 connection piece remained unoccupied. Only when all the air had escaped through the nozzle did I connect the CO2 hose. However, it is not a problem if some air remains in the reactor. Jörg Düren assured me that it will be held after a short time. As with any CO2 fertilization system, a non-return valve and a bubble counter must be installed between the gas cylinder (with pressure reducer and fine needle valve) and the reactor.
First, I kept the previous bubble count (140 per minute). After two hours, the plants showed clear signs of increased assimilation. Numerous oxygen bubbles formed on the underside of the leaves of my spotted water lily (Nymphaea micrantha "Spotted") and pearled upwards. The endurance test then confirmed that the dissolved CO2 concentration in the aquarium had already risen from ten to around 20 mg/l.
The next day the value was 40 mg/l (measurement via the pH value using an electrode and via the carbonate hardness) - high time to reduce the number of bubbles! It is currently set at about 55 bubbles per minute. With this I achieve a CO2 concentration of 20 mg/l, so the reactor dissolves the gas much more effectively than my previous pinball machine.
The reactor has now been in operation for six months. I haven't done any maintenance yet. Jörg Düren confirmed to me that cleaning or venting during his previous test phase (two years) was also not necessary and probably will not be in the future either. If you still want to clean, the materials used allow treatment with hot water and vinegar. Backwashing is also conceivable.
An acquaintance who runs a 2,500 liter aquarium previously used a large external reactor installed above the biofilter tank for the carbon dioxide input. After the installation of the Düren reactor, a lower CO2 consumption could also be determined here (the supply is regulated via the pH value). The tiresome changing of the bottles now has to be done much less frequently than before. I wanted to know from Jörg Düren whether he had a small reactor for my wall aquarium (90 x 20 x 25 centimetres). Here I was not happy with all the entry systems I have tried so far:
• Ceramic frits have an enormous back pressure and are very difficult to adjust. They always dosed either too much or too little CO2.
• With a suitable pinball machine, the bubble dwell time was practically zero (in Dennerle's mini pinball machine, the bubble takes less than a second to get from the bottom to the top
), so the entry is anything but efficient.
• Even a self-made diffuser (tube with a cigarette filter) was not optimal. Here the back pressure was negligible, but the dwell time of the generated gas bubbles was also very short due to the low height of the aquarium.
Unfortunately, Jörg Düren only had one large model. But because my inquiry kept him busy, he developed a small reactor that he let me test. I connected the six-by-eight-centimeter device to the outlet of my tubular reactor. Since then, the CO2 value has been easy to set and I'm happy with the much lower consumption! According to Düren, this new mini-reactor is suitable for aquariums up to 1,000 liters and releases up to 400 bubbles per minute.
In addition, Jörg Düren expanded his product line with another reactor ("Midi", 7.5 x 10.5 centimeters, for aquariums up to 3,000 liters, maximum 1,500 bubbles per minute).
In conclusion, the advantages of the Düren CO2 reactor can be summarized as follows: extremely high efficiency even with high bubble counts; low flow resistance; simple, maintenance-free and safe design; installable inside (biofilter) or outside the aquarium; cheap to buy.
Petra Fitz
The below is A la Chrome Translate from German to English:
The important plant nutrient carbon dioxide is supplied to the aquarium most economically in gaseous form. The CO2 must be dissolved in the aquarium water using suitable technology.
This is most effective in what are known as reactors, which are usually installed outside the basin. Here the gas is fed into a container in parallel or counter-current to the aquarium water.
This container is filled with a medium (plastic carrier, baffle plates) so that there is a strong turbulence of gas and water. This more or less completely dissolves the CO2. Such reactors are mostly used in larger aquariums.
When I got the CO2 reactors from Jörg Düren to test six months ago (two models with different hose connections), I was a bit skeptical at first, because the construction made of glued PVC parts did not allow a look inside, and the devices could be opened neither. All reactors that I know of can be disassembled for cleaning and are visible so that you can monitor their operation.
The Düren reactor consists of a cylindrical vessel with a hose connection piece placed in the middle at the top and bottom. There are versions for 12/16 and 16/22 millimeter hoses. The socket for connecting a 4/6 millimeter standard CO2 hose is attached to the side at the top and is equipped with a hose lock.
Because I really wanted to know how exactly the reactor works and how it differs from conventional models, I researched on the Internet. There I came across Düren's patent application, which describes the structure and mode of operation of the reactor.
Carbon dioxide and water enter the reactor from above (vertical installation is important). The water is deflected horizontally by a baffle plate, creating a horizontal ring vortex. The gas bubbles are broken up and largely dissolved through intensive contact with the water. The vortex also ensures that the gas that is not immediately dissolved remains in the upper part of the reactor (gas bubble) and is continuously mixed with fresh water. The H2O enriched with CO2 is guided downwards laterally through a grid and/or sponge system and exits there again via the outlet connection. Due to the design and arrangement of the baffle plate, central tube and grid-sponge system, the reactor is virtually self-regulating: the more gas that is fed in, the more carbon dioxide is released. With this model, Düren dissolved up to 5,000 CO2 bubbles per minute with a pump capacity of 500 liters per hour. That's a lot for such a small reactor (compared to other models with similar power).
Now, of course, I was curious to see whether the reactor would prove to be as good in practice as the description promised. My largest aquarium (200 x 60 x 60 centimetres, 720 liters) served as the test tank. Previously, a Dennerle Maxi pinball machine (for aquariums up to 600 liters) was responsible for dissolving the gas in the aquarium water. The flipper is only designed for tanks up to 600 liters, but I wasn't aiming for high CO2 concentrations, a basic supply of around ten milligrams per liter was enough for me. The number of bubbles required for this was 140 per minute (9 °KH). With this setting, I had the impression that the CO2 was almost completely dissolved: the bubbles rising in the pinball machine became visibly smaller, and only tiny bubbles made it to the top. A three-chamber biofilter is attached to one of the two short sides of the aquarium, which I operate with a pump capacity of 1,000 liters per hour. When I asked, Jörg Düren confirmed that the power for the reactor was OK, so I didn't have to work with a bypass. The device with a diameter of ten and a height (without socket) of 13 centimeters should be accommodated in the clear water chamber. Since space is unfortunately very limited here, the installation was tricky. The reactor is designed in such a way that the CO2 and water inlets must be from top to bottom (in cocurrent). Because the water in a biofilter is pumped from the bottom up, the installation was a bit cumbersome. The construction just barely fit into the filter chamber. To avoid the transmission of vibrations, I inserted pieces of filter mat as padding.
First I had to vent the reactor. To do this, I put the filter pump into operation, but the CO2 connection piece remained unoccupied. Only when all the air had escaped through the nozzle did I connect the CO2 hose. However, it is not a problem if some air remains in the reactor. Jörg Düren assured me that it will be held after a short time. As with any CO2 fertilization system, a non-return valve and a bubble counter must be installed between the gas cylinder (with pressure reducer and fine needle valve) and the reactor.
First, I kept the previous bubble count (140 per minute). After two hours, the plants showed clear signs of increased assimilation. Numerous oxygen bubbles formed on the underside of the leaves of my spotted water lily (Nymphaea micrantha "Spotted") and pearled upwards. The endurance test then confirmed that the dissolved CO2 concentration in the aquarium had already risen from ten to around 20 mg/l.
The next day the value was 40 mg/l (measurement via the pH value using an electrode and via the carbonate hardness) - high time to reduce the number of bubbles! It is currently set at about 55 bubbles per minute. With this I achieve a CO2 concentration of 20 mg/l, so the reactor dissolves the gas much more effectively than my previous pinball machine.
The reactor has now been in operation for six months. I haven't done any maintenance yet. Jörg Düren confirmed to me that cleaning or venting during his previous test phase (two years) was also not necessary and probably will not be in the future either. If you still want to clean, the materials used allow treatment with hot water and vinegar. Backwashing is also conceivable.
An acquaintance who runs a 2,500 liter aquarium previously used a large external reactor installed above the biofilter tank for the carbon dioxide input. After the installation of the Düren reactor, a lower CO2 consumption could also be determined here (the supply is regulated via the pH value). The tiresome changing of the bottles now has to be done much less frequently than before. I wanted to know from Jörg Düren whether he had a small reactor for my wall aquarium (90 x 20 x 25 centimetres). Here I was not happy with all the entry systems I have tried so far:
• Ceramic frits have an enormous back pressure and are very difficult to adjust. They always dosed either too much or too little CO2.
• With a suitable pinball machine, the bubble dwell time was practically zero (in Dennerle's mini pinball machine, the bubble takes less than a second to get from the bottom to the top
), so the entry is anything but efficient.
• Even a self-made diffuser (tube with a cigarette filter) was not optimal. Here the back pressure was negligible, but the dwell time of the generated gas bubbles was also very short due to the low height of the aquarium.
Unfortunately, Jörg Düren only had one large model. But because my inquiry kept him busy, he developed a small reactor that he let me test. I connected the six-by-eight-centimeter device to the outlet of my tubular reactor. Since then, the CO2 value has been easy to set and I'm happy with the much lower consumption! According to Düren, this new mini-reactor is suitable for aquariums up to 1,000 liters and releases up to 400 bubbles per minute.
In addition, Jörg Düren expanded his product line with another reactor ("Midi", 7.5 x 10.5 centimeters, for aquariums up to 3,000 liters, maximum 1,500 bubbles per minute).
In conclusion, the advantages of the Düren CO2 reactor can be summarized as follows: extremely high efficiency even with high bubble counts; low flow resistance; simple, maintenance-free and safe design; installable inside (biofilter) or outside the aquarium; cheap to buy.
Petra Fitz
Wookii
Member
These reactors are impossibly small as well. The Mini for up to 6bps is only 8cm x 6.5cm dia., and the Midi for up to 16bps is only 10.5cm x 7.5cm dia. - these two models should cover 95% of tanks on here!
I'll be honest, I am not convinced with that reactor. I always tend to be very skeptical of products that look too good to be true.
1. Why the need to hide and obfuscate the internals and make it non-mantainable . Physics are the same no matter the reactor so that's that.
2. If what that translation says is right, having a sponge (or tight grid/mesh) in there is BAD in my opinion. In my DIY reactor I added a sponge half way as a test a few months back to slow down flow and prevent very small bubbles to flow out. I cleaned the reactor 1 week ago. Needless to say, the sponge was quite dirty and so I decided to remove it entirely. Glad my reactor can be unscrewed for easy cleaning.
3. I read no mention if smaller bubbles are able to pass through or not. That is a major information that should have been mentioned to assess the product at a specific flow rate.
Both Cerges and Griggs reactors have proven their efficacy so why reinvent the wheel?
1. Why the need to hide and obfuscate the internals and make it non-mantainable . Physics are the same no matter the reactor so that's that.
2. If what that translation says is right, having a sponge (or tight grid/mesh) in there is BAD in my opinion. In my DIY reactor I added a sponge half way as a test a few months back to slow down flow and prevent very small bubbles to flow out. I cleaned the reactor 1 week ago. Needless to say, the sponge was quite dirty and so I decided to remove it entirely. Glad my reactor can be unscrewed for easy cleaning.
3. I read no mention if smaller bubbles are able to pass through or not. That is a major information that should have been mentioned to assess the product at a specific flow rate.
Both Cerges and Griggs reactors have proven their efficacy so why reinvent the wheel?
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Which reactor is that? The chinese one? If so, not surprised. The plastic used in that reactor is flimsy and from the day I bought that reactor for testing I had the feeling the plastic was going to be an issue. My opinion is that a reactor should be constructed out of PVC or similar hard plastics. At least plastic should be thick enough which is not the case with that reactor.
This answers pretty much my questions about bubbles and the fact that this is yet another attempt to make a bubble free reactor which clearly the reactor is not able to do. Now I am not saying it's all bad, but that combined with the fact that one cannot open the reactor for cleaning is not a good starter to me. Only positive part I see is the size. It's rather small comparatively to other solutions but that again is a relative benefit as one would need to see how much CO2 can be dissolved at specific flow rates.
Also something very odd is that there is virtually no other videos or articles talking about this reactors. If it was a beast I guess that by now everyone should know about it. It was released in 2016.
Also something very odd is that there is virtually no other videos or articles talking about this reactors. If it was a beast I guess that by now everyone should know about it. It was released in 2016.
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Reviving an old thread, but maybe this will be helpful to some... My Yidao reactor started leaking co2. I accidentally spilled some water and noticed that some of the gas (strangely not a drop of water, even when co2 was off) was getting out from between the plastic container and the metal valve. I tried to tighten it as there is a nut, but that failed. I decided that the worst case scenario is put my inline diffuser back on and proceeded to unscrew it all together. Basically the plastic lid is just fine threaded and the metal valve was covered in some kind of rubbery glue that disintegrated between my fingers - what could go wrong with this design? I decided to try and mend it... I threw one small o-ring to the bottom of the hole in the lid and wrapped the thread of the valve with PTFA tape , then added another o-ring on top of the valve - for good measure. Tightened it, and checked in the bucket of water this time- no gas is leaking - at least for now. Worth checking your reactors for any insidious leaks...
Zeus.
Fertz Meister
Reviving an old thread, but maybe this will be helpful to some... My Yidao reactor started leaking co2. I accidentally spilled some water and noticed that some of the gas (strangely not a drop of water, even when co2 was off) was getting out from between the plastic container and the metal valve. I tried to tighten it as there is a nut, but that failed. I decided that the worst case scenario is put my inline diffuser back on and proceeded to unscrew it all together. Basically the plastic lid is just fine threaded and the metal valve was covered in some kind of rubbery glue that disintegrated between my fingers - what could go wrong with this design? I decided to try and mend it... I threw one small o-ring to the bottom of the hole in the lid and wrapped the thread of the valve with PTFA tape , then added another o-ring on top of the valve - for good measure. Tightened it, and checked in the bucket of water this time- no gas is leaking - at least for now. Worth checking your reactors for any insidious leaks...
Thanks for the 'heads up'
Andy Taylor
Member
Well that's one item off my wish list.
Mine is still working great, I have cleaned it 3 times also, the seal design could be a lot better as when you put it back together you gotta be careful for it not to leak. But so far has been the best CO2 reactor I have used. No more blockages and fluctuations on the CO2!
Wookii
Member
Not aware of any issues, as it doesnt create any pressure other than the water flow, hard to see why it would develop a leak! There is nothing there to block it or create any pressure on the CO2 tube!
KirstyF
Member
I’ve also got two of these, both had a couple of cleans. No problems, no leaks. All good here!
LondonAquascaper
Member
I also have one, its great - but I did find that water sloshes around because some of the co2 is getting sucked into the water inside the reactor and creating bubbles that spin around.
Has anyone else found this?
Has anyone else found this?
KirstyF
Member
Yes, I’m injecting loads of bubbles and both of mine slosh. I’m not finding the noise particularly offensive tbf but it is definitely audible.
Wookii
Member
Can you guys identify exactly what is making the noise? Is it the bubbles being pushed around the canister, or something else.
Is the water inlet inside the reactor below the water surface level inside, or does the gas build up enough to expose it?
If anyone wants to make a little video, it would be useful to see . . .
Is the water inlet inside the reactor below the water surface level inside, or does the gas build up enough to expose it?
If anyone wants to make a little video, it would be useful to see . . .
It's the build up of gas at the top of the cannister, when it builds quite a bit and catches the water flow it creates noise.
I tried a venturi on the outflow bend inside the reactor, by drilling a hole in it and attaching a bit of CO2 tube to the top of the chamber, the water flow pulled the bubble down the tube and out the water flow, but this actually made it noisier.
I remove the venturi but the hole I had made for the venturi I left it there, weird enough since then it's not as noisy as it used to be before! I can barely ear it these days!
